Seems I forgot much from the Little Tower's brush with the evil bubbles. Still, the newbies in TGS aside, I assumed part of the AS training involves working in circles I also assumed that more is imparted then. I may be wrong, since readers spend most of their time with the gifted few who leapfrog past a lot of lessons. Maybe a proper education on the world and such would've softened Nynaeve's and Egwene's character flaws. Actually, probably not.
I'd never assume any anti-RC bias from RJ, since he was a devout and practicing Christian (I think Catholic, not sure) all his life. Having once been a part of it myself, I don't disparage people who are not as bothered by their mistakes as I am. Still, though I do take my unnecessary digs on rare occasions, the WT seems to pretty clearly be an RC Church analogue:
One dominant gender, center of learning, influence on nobility everywhere, settler of disputes between nations, wealthy, armed, and a nation unto itself, dedicated to the "good" supernatural entity...
And yes, they make many mistakes which cost lives, interfere with international relations for their own benefit, believe they have authority over everyone as well as moral and intellectual superiority. They also engage in actions and ascribe to beliefs which trivialize and push aside people with different beliefs and goals, etc etc. And yeah, arrogance and bullishness are evident in WT and RC. Some folks can intellectually come to that conclusion without the need for bias.
Aren't the traditional Catholic criticisms that you describe very similar to the ones you levy against the WT? "anachronistic, anti-scientific, slow to change, conservative, bigoted, self-absorbed" seem to match, save the science part.
These arguments in favor of the comparison may not be perfect - most arguments have flaws - but we could put it to a poll, if you like. I think "Is the WT an analogue for the RC" would get a "yes."
More importantly, what I said about the RC - that they are an organization constrained by its own policies and beliefs - can be validly made without it being part of the world-wide, rabid, "unfair" assault on the world's most powerful religious body. I only have a problem with the organization, not the religion. And I believe in sticking to the distinction between Critique and Criticism. The former carries no intention to insult.
Yes, I suppose that the RC would be vilified for trying to "whup evil."
The aliens point is very good.
You discount the Tinkers too easily. Maybe, as in Emond's Field, they'll be running away with everyone's kids. Maybe they'll rediscover the song, or distract Arangar with their sexy sexy dancing. Who the hell knows?
I call the Seanchan stupid because of their hyper-imperialist, cult-of-personality, secret-police attitudes. More importantly, the fact that they are slavers. Slavers=stupid.
I'd never assume any anti-RC bias from RJ, since he was a devout and practicing Christian (I think Catholic, not sure) all his life. Having once been a part of it myself, I don't disparage people who are not as bothered by their mistakes as I am. Still, though I do take my unnecessary digs on rare occasions, the WT seems to pretty clearly be an RC Church analogue:
One dominant gender, center of learning, influence on nobility everywhere, settler of disputes between nations, wealthy, armed, and a nation unto itself, dedicated to the "good" supernatural entity...
And yes, they make many mistakes which cost lives, interfere with international relations for their own benefit, believe they have authority over everyone as well as moral and intellectual superiority. They also engage in actions and ascribe to beliefs which trivialize and push aside people with different beliefs and goals, etc etc. And yeah, arrogance and bullishness are evident in WT and RC. Some folks can intellectually come to that conclusion without the need for bias.
Aren't the traditional Catholic criticisms that you describe very similar to the ones you levy against the WT? "anachronistic, anti-scientific, slow to change, conservative, bigoted, self-absorbed" seem to match, save the science part.
These arguments in favor of the comparison may not be perfect - most arguments have flaws - but we could put it to a poll, if you like. I think "Is the WT an analogue for the RC" would get a "yes."
More importantly, what I said about the RC - that they are an organization constrained by its own policies and beliefs - can be validly made without it being part of the world-wide, rabid, "unfair" assault on the world's most powerful religious body. I only have a problem with the organization, not the religion. And I believe in sticking to the distinction between Critique and Criticism. The former carries no intention to insult.
Yes, I suppose that the RC would be vilified for trying to "whup evil."
The aliens point is very good.
You discount the Tinkers too easily. Maybe, as in Emond's Field, they'll be running away with everyone's kids. Maybe they'll rediscover the song, or distract Arangar with their sexy sexy dancing. Who the hell knows?
I call the Seanchan stupid because of their hyper-imperialist, cult-of-personality, secret-police attitudes. More importantly, the fact that they are slavers. Slavers=stupid.
This message last edited by newyorkersedai on 17/04/2010 at 11:17:08 PM
Does Rand really need the White Tower?
15/04/2010 06:42:36 PM
- 1231 Views
No. I can understand/appreciate the arguments, but IMHO the White Tower AS are not that valuable
15/04/2010 07:27:23 PM
- 720 Views
Re: Does Rand really need the White Tower?
15/04/2010 09:29:50 PM
- 558 Views
Meh. Growing pains. And unlike the White Tower split, this will not be a refreshing shake-up
16/04/2010 02:45:21 PM
- 686 Views
Depends
16/04/2010 06:50:53 AM
- 609 Views
some respectful disagreement, if you don't mind
17/04/2010 04:04:32 AM
- 574 Views
Re: some respectful disagreement, if you don't mind
17/04/2010 08:22:22 PM
- 607 Views
good points about the linking
17/04/2010 11:13:21 PM
- 563 Views
On the other hand,you recently argued that sending away Else was a capital mistake by Siuan
16/04/2010 09:29:56 AM
- 606 Views
And the WT, even (or maybe especially) under Egwene is the greatest obstacle to that unity
16/04/2010 02:50:24 PM
- 585 Views
Re: And the WT, even (or maybe especially) under Egwene is the greatest obstacle to that unity
23/04/2010 11:08:58 PM
- 622 Views