good points about the linking - Edit 1
Before modification by newyorkersedai at 17/04/2010 11:17:08 PM
Seems I forgot much from the Little Tower's brush with the evil bubbles. Still, the newbies in TGS aside, I assumed part of the AS training involves working in circles I also assumed that more is imparted then. I may be wrong, since readers spend most of their time with the gifted few who leapfrog past a lot of lessons. Maybe a proper education on the world and such would've softened Nynaeve's and Egwene's character flaws. Actually, probably not.
I'd never assume any anti-RC bias from RJ, since he was a devout and practicing Christian (I think Catholic, not sure) all his life. Having once been a part of it myself, I don't disparage people who are not as bothered by their mistakes as I am. Still, though I do take my unnecessary digs on rare occasions, the WT seems to pretty clearly be an RC Church analogue:
One dominant gender, center of learning, influence on nobility everywhere, settler of disputes between nations, wealthy, armed, and a nation unto itself, dedicated to the "good" supernatural entity...
And yes, they make many mistakes which cost lives, interfere with international relations for their own benefit, believe they have authority over everyone as well as moral and intellectual superiority. They also engage in actions and ascribe to beliefs which trivialize and push aside people with different beliefs and goals, etc etc. And yeah, arrogance and bullishness are evident in WT and RC. Some folks can intellectually come to that conclusion without the need for bias.
Aren't the traditional Catholic criticisms that you describe very similar to the ones you levy against the WT? "anachronistic, anti-scientific, slow to change, conservative, bigoted, self-absorbed" seem to match, save the science part.
These arguments in favor of the comparison may not be perfect - most arguments have flaws - but we could put it to a poll, if you like. I think "Is the WT an analogue for the RC" would get a "yes."
More importantly, what I said about the WT - that they are an organization constrained by its own policies and beliefs - can be validly made without it being part of the world-wide, rabid, "unfair" assault on the world's most powerful religious body. I only have a problem with the organization, not the religion. And I believe in sticking to the distinction between Critique and Criticism. The former carries no intention to insult.
Yes, I suppose that the RC would be vilified for trying to "whup evil."
The aliens point is very good.
You discount the Tinkers too easily. Maybe, as in Emond's Field, they'll be running away with everyone's kids. Maybe they'll rediscover the song, or distract Arangar with their sexy sexy dancing. Who the hell knows?
I call the Seanchan stupid because of their hyper-imperialist, cult-of-personality, secret-police attitudes. More importantly, the fact that they are slavers. Slavers=stupid.
I'd never assume any anti-RC bias from RJ, since he was a devout and practicing Christian (I think Catholic, not sure) all his life. Having once been a part of it myself, I don't disparage people who are not as bothered by their mistakes as I am. Still, though I do take my unnecessary digs on rare occasions, the WT seems to pretty clearly be an RC Church analogue:
One dominant gender, center of learning, influence on nobility everywhere, settler of disputes between nations, wealthy, armed, and a nation unto itself, dedicated to the "good" supernatural entity...
And yes, they make many mistakes which cost lives, interfere with international relations for their own benefit, believe they have authority over everyone as well as moral and intellectual superiority. They also engage in actions and ascribe to beliefs which trivialize and push aside people with different beliefs and goals, etc etc. And yeah, arrogance and bullishness are evident in WT and RC. Some folks can intellectually come to that conclusion without the need for bias.
Aren't the traditional Catholic criticisms that you describe very similar to the ones you levy against the WT? "anachronistic, anti-scientific, slow to change, conservative, bigoted, self-absorbed" seem to match, save the science part.
These arguments in favor of the comparison may not be perfect - most arguments have flaws - but we could put it to a poll, if you like. I think "Is the WT an analogue for the RC" would get a "yes."
More importantly, what I said about the WT - that they are an organization constrained by its own policies and beliefs - can be validly made without it being part of the world-wide, rabid, "unfair" assault on the world's most powerful religious body. I only have a problem with the organization, not the religion. And I believe in sticking to the distinction between Critique and Criticism. The former carries no intention to insult.
Yes, I suppose that the RC would be vilified for trying to "whup evil."
The aliens point is very good.
You discount the Tinkers too easily. Maybe, as in Emond's Field, they'll be running away with everyone's kids. Maybe they'll rediscover the song, or distract Arangar with their sexy sexy dancing. Who the hell knows?
I call the Seanchan stupid because of their hyper-imperialist, cult-of-personality, secret-police attitudes. More importantly, the fact that they are slavers. Slavers=stupid.