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True Larry Send a noteboard - 30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM
But I think my main problem I had with the second and third books (like I do with a lot of multi-volume work) is that I had a better understanding of the setting, but that the characterizations were very underdeveloped at those points. That and it seemed to take too long to get to certain plot points (as if that ever really changed!).


One of Jordan's arguable "big mistakes" early on was that when he realized he wanted more breathing room to tell the beginning of the story in the style he was aiming for than any single volume would let him, he took the easy way out and rather than re thinking the whole beginning of his story (for instance by being more discriminating with the episodes he really needed vs. all the ideas he had) he divided his original book 1 into a kind of trilogy, obvioulsy adding "episodes" to get full novels out of his original three acts. It does work more or less in EOTW and TDR but it's largely failing in TGH which has all the defects of an overblown Act 2. The really big mistake, though, was to create three almost identical climaxes out of what was no doubt his original big confrontation with Ishamael that brought things back to the first prologue. And while he was at it, why not triple Egwene's captivity as well and why not triple the revelation of Rand as Dragon Reborn? And so instead of Egwene being captured in act 2, we got Egwene getting captured in act 2 thrice, and we got Rand losing Moiraine thrice and son on etc. That's all coherent enough with Jordan's concept of the Pattern repeating itself in great and small ways, but there are ideas like this that gain from staying in the background and not infect the storytelling itself too much....

Jordan ended up with not one "slower" introductory book that you'd expect in a multi-volume effort, but three. That's at least one too much. It's only with book 4 he started getting into the thick of things and turned to the more historical style he was aiming for since day 1 (so he's claimed anyway).


That's the problem with books 1,2,3 Roberts skirted around a lot and, not having done much research on the series's history, never quite nailed down. Jordan had too much to tell in a single book, but solved this out by splitting it in three books that he then padded - and it shows.


And that certainly would explained why I felt these books felt laborious to read, since it does repeat the basic narrative structure as you stated. Good points made, although like I said in my partial response to you above (I realized after the fact that I forgot to answer a few more paragraphs - oops! :P), it may be that in mostly approaching it without doing extensive reading on the background, Roberts was bound to miss a few things until he progresses further. Not too many readers want to know the entire story before reading the story, I've noticed ;)
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM 12304 Views
A question for Larry - 19/03/2010 09:40:37 PM 2817 Views
Roberto Bolaño - 19/03/2010 11:09:57 PM 2613 Views
I completely agree with his review. - 19/03/2010 11:11:17 PM 2788 Views
Ouch! Somebody pull that guy off RJ! *NM* - 20/03/2010 03:47:07 AM 1369 Views
Can't say that I really disagree. - 20/03/2010 05:19:26 AM 2100 Views
My problem with the reviews: - 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM 2747 Views
Hear Hear !!! ....................... = ........................ *NM* - 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM 1318 Views
I agree - 20/03/2010 11:19:29 AM 2200 Views
You know what else I'm finding annoying? - 07/04/2010 07:29:37 AM 2144 Views
Fully Agree *NM* - 21/06/2010 12:41:05 AM 1192 Views
well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM 2496 Views
Re: well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM 2036 Views
I'd say just The Eye of the World - 20/03/2010 05:26:19 PM 2057 Views
Indeed - 21/03/2010 12:34:19 AM 2013 Views
These reviews are pathetic - 20/03/2010 12:52:22 PM 2008 Views
I'm amused by some of the responses - 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM 2432 Views
+1 *NM* - 20/03/2010 10:48:14 PM 1526 Views
Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ? - 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM 2188 Views
No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes - 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM 2193 Views
I considered doing so - 21/03/2010 12:27:27 AM 2018 Views
I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ? - 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM 1981 Views
My sister called me chicken once - 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM 2019 Views
what's wrong runt... are you yellah? *NM* - 10/04/2010 10:40:16 AM 1274 Views
NICE! *NM* - 10/04/2010 02:19:44 PM 1142 Views
Re: I'm amused by some of the responses - 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM 2079 Views
And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM 2017 Views
Re: And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 03:03:28 AM 1883 Views
Nah, TGS was the only serious review of the series I've done - 24/03/2010 04:31:28 AM 1958 Views
On a completely unrelated note... - 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM 1865 Views
Ha! - 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM 1925 Views
My congratulations then . *NM* - 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM 1838 Views
You say it as if I had been condemned to hell! - 24/03/2010 07:13:45 AM 1747 Views
No. Well, maybe. - 24/03/2010 06:52:28 PM 1891 Views
! - 24/03/2010 06:54:34 PM 1904 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 22/03/2010 02:47:23 PM 2026 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 01:53:16 PM 1994 Views
Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series - 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM 2066 Views
There's a point to it? - 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM 2036 Views
Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM* - 24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM 1291 Views
You're not taking me seriously now, are you? - 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM 1983 Views
I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place - 24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM 1933 Views
I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening? - 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM 2024 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 04:54:38 PM 1991 Views
pfft wth-ever - 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM 1847 Views
Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM 2096 Views
bla bla bla - 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM 1962 Views
Usually, it's spelled "blah" - 29/03/2010 07:03:51 AM 1926 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you *NM* - 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM 1454 Views
You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM 1884 Views
Re: You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM 2004 Views
I know you were, thus the at the least of my comment - 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM 1860 Views
Unimpressed - 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM 2273 Views
Thank you - 30/03/2010 12:35:39 AM 1769 Views
*Standing ovation for DomA* - 30/03/2010 07:36:59 AM 2009 Views
Yes. Also, Roberts is a wanker. *NM* - 05/04/2010 09:28:57 PM 1297 Views
Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM 1989 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again. - 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 1897 Views
Awards - 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM 1856 Views
That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM 1830 Views
Re: That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM 1948 Views
This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM 1867 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM 1911 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM 1894 Views
Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM 2043 Views
The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM 1786 Views
Re: The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM 1779 Views
No, no, no - 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM 1836 Views
Re: No, no, no - 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM 1950 Views
Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM 1895 Views
Re: Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM 1848 Views
Those were polls - 31/03/2010 08:46:07 PM 1854 Views
Re: Those were polls - 05/04/2010 03:22:13 PM 1831 Views
Does it gives him right to insult me? - 13/04/2011 02:10:32 PM 1834 Views
I wouldn't know. Was he speaking directly to you? - 14/04/2011 11:28:16 PM 1977 Views
He's now reviewed the third book - 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM 2097 Views
Well, this time I must disagree with him . - 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM 1826 Views
I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that - 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM 1790 Views
Hah! - 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM 1843 Views
Well... - 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM 1759 Views
Differing perspectives, I guess. - 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM 1903 Views
I suppose - 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM 1820 Views
Re: I suppose - 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM 1988 Views
True - 30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM 1837 Views
Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM 1764 Views
Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM 1972 Views
But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM 1862 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 03:56:54 PM 1838 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:29:37 PM 1934 Views
I really liked a lot of the minor characters in The Great Hunt. - 30/03/2010 12:49:03 AM 1853 Views
I barely thought twice about those, to be honest - 30/03/2010 06:39:55 PM 1878 Views
I can't wait what he's going to try to do with TFoH and beyond - 28/03/2010 08:18:59 PM 1959 Views
Glad you enjoyed it - 29/03/2010 09:33:43 PM 1777 Views
The Shadow Rising review - 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM 2077 Views
I wonder if this borders on trolling - 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM 10624 Views
You want complaining? You got it... - 02/04/2010 06:38:09 PM 1950 Views
That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM 2092 Views
Re: That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM 1826 Views
I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter - 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM 1963 Views
Little late to this one as well - 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM 1982 Views
Perhaps you should have led with this bit - 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM 2026 Views
Re: I wonder if this borders on trolling - 04/04/2010 09:16:22 AM 1915 Views
What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM 2051 Views
Re: What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM 2032 Views
See my comment below - 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM 2107 Views
Re: See my comment below - 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM 2436 Views
Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week - 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM 2270 Views
Yes, I can probably agree with what you say here. - 08/04/2010 12:29:16 AM 1734 Views
- 08/04/2010 12:32:53 AM 1872 Views
I agree completely. *NM* - 02/04/2010 09:53:44 PM 1161 Views
Speaking of irritation - 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM 2029 Views
Commentary, then? - 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM 1848 Views
Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM 1840 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM 1699 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 03/04/2010 01:34:05 AM 1754 Views
I somehow overlooked this last week, it seems - 10/04/2010 11:01:17 AM 2060 Views
Indeed - 02/04/2010 10:34:00 PM 1737 Views
Re: Commentary, then? - 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM 1837 Views
for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work - 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM 2021 Views
1400 words is long-winded? - 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM 2037 Views
since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded - 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM 1911 Views
Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit - 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM 1970 Views
You are very defensive over this - 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM 1743 Views
Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM 1826 Views
Re: Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 05:30:53 PM 1748 Views
You sound like a Goodkind webmaster from a couple of years ago - 12/04/2010 06:58:42 PM 1828 Views
You don't come across as a devil's advocate - 30/03/2011 03:07:32 PM 1827 Views
Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM 1969 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM 1835 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM 1718 Views
Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM 1932 Views
Re: Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 01:26:42 PM 1871 Views
I have a very different take on that book - 10/04/2010 11:17:13 AM 1788 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 09/04/2010 01:45:44 PM 1838 Views
Hrmm... - 10/04/2010 11:19:01 AM 1706 Views
Re: Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 12/04/2010 05:37:36 PM 1942 Views
He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner - 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM 1897 Views
To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM 1901 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM 2448 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM 1881 Views
why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts? - 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM 1898 Views
I don't understand it either - 11/04/2010 12:44:25 PM 1881 Views
right? - 11/04/2010 02:13:00 PM 1903 Views
Nah - 12/04/2010 04:13:44 AM 1711 Views
And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus - 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM 1855 Views
5 reviews without saying more than "I hate the series" - 09/04/2010 01:31:13 PM 1738 Views
Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument... - 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM 1761 Views
Well, what was really resolved here? - 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM 1837 Views
Well... - 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM 1940 Views
well exactly - 12/04/2010 05:33:11 PM 1973 Views
So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then? - 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM 1946 Views
Yes... - 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 1670 Views
Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon? - 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM 1971 Views
I guess... - 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM 1976 Views
Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest - 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM 3116 Views
Nah... - 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM 1706 Views
He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others - 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM 1778 Views
Ah, well... - 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM 1734 Views
Dismissive, much? - 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM 1873 Views
About that bifurcation... - 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM 1852 Views
I'm rather moderate - 14/04/2010 10:11:30 AM 1761 Views
I'm just a liberation theologist at heart - 15/04/2010 01:51:16 PM 2673 Views
So, if you don't mind... - 13/04/2010 05:51:06 AM 1862 Views
That's fine with me - 13/04/2010 06:31:41 AM 1832 Views
I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS. - 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM 1852 Views
I didn't find it quite that bad, but... - 11/04/2010 08:27:52 AM 1848 Views
LoC represented a sharp drop in quality!!? - 19/05/2010 03:27:21 PM 1862 Views
And ignores everything else... - 09/04/2010 05:10:00 PM 1897 Views
Inchoatus went offline a couple of years ago - 10/04/2010 11:42:26 AM 2831 Views
This guy is going to get what he deserves... - 09/04/2010 10:26:14 PM 1841 Views
I'm waiting with bated breath for his CoT review *NM* - 10/04/2010 01:00:59 PM 1248 Views
Just wanted to point out that he is not reviewing the series. - 16/04/2010 04:04:49 PM 1789 Views
Lord of Chaos commentary - 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM 1839 Views
He has reached - The Hump. - 16/04/2010 03:55:51 PM 1783 Views
Re: He has reached - The Hump. - 18/04/2010 08:08:59 AM 2246 Views
No no. It was Lord of Heaven! - 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM 1754 Views
Yeah, I noticed that - 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM 1679 Views
I would love the see him review Goodkind... - 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM 1865 Views
Finally re-read that post - 20/04/2010 09:35:45 PM 1862 Views
The magic items are mostly irrelevant... - 21/04/2010 03:37:36 AM 1848 Views
A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM 1958 Views
Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM 1898 Views
I disagree - 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM 1710 Views
I agree. - 29/04/2010 09:45:29 PM 1901 Views
Took me a moment to realize with whom you were agreeing - 29/04/2010 10:19:05 PM 1797 Views
Well, I did mention the necklines get overdone... - 06/05/2010 06:17:46 PM 2142 Views
Well, there's now also the tea to comment about - 07/05/2010 11:29:03 AM 1920 Views
A bit of a stumble this week - 30/04/2010 01:53:31 PM 1952 Views
The Path of Daggers commentary - 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM 1987 Views
You'd think a Brit would like the tea... *NM* - 11/05/2010 04:05:42 PM 1112 Views
Maybe he's just a contrarian? - 11/05/2010 07:55:43 PM 1782 Views
Winter's Heart - 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM 1977 Views
To be fair - 21/05/2010 01:56:49 PM 2121 Views
I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM 1833 Views
Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM 1995 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot. - 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM 1884 Views
I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote: - 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM 2156 Views
CoT, you mean (link to actual post included) - 28/05/2010 04:56:10 PM 1989 Views
Yep, I meant COT. *NM* - 28/05/2010 07:02:48 PM 1121 Views
Knife of Dreams - 18/06/2010 09:07:27 AM 1862 Views
Re: Knife of Dreams - 19/06/2010 05:49:38 AM 1949 Views
Agree... - 19/06/2010 05:08:44 PM 1911 Views
Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him - 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM 1948 Views
This guy should be burned at the stake - 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM 9371 Views
Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark? - 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM 1884 Views
Oh come on... - 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM 1962 Views
Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much... - 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM 1985 Views
Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice... - 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM 1989 Views
And your point is...? - 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM 2007 Views
Well... - 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM 1966 Views
Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble - 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM 2102 Views
There is no "borderline" about it. - 28/03/2011 05:17:15 PM 1818 Views
Ridiculous - 27/06/2010 06:38:46 AM 1858 Views
I like his FAQ and his overall musings on its' popularity. - 29/06/2010 06:35:10 PM 1905 Views
One year later... - 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM 1824 Views
Re: One year later... - 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM 2026 Views
I see you subconsciously support critical takes. - 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM 2040 Views
No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM* - 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM 1181 Views
Jealous? - 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM 1826 Views
I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM 1105 Views
Seconded. - 30/03/2011 04:04:36 PM 1773 Views
Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM* - 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM 1232 Views
Yep! - 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM 1766 Views
Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor. - 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM 1923 Views
Nah, no detractor - 01/04/2011 03:00:41 PM 1918 Views
Could a thread be locked? - 31/03/2011 07:48:26 PM 1784 Views
Re: One year later... - 01/04/2011 02:55:02 AM 2159 Views
Yep - 01/04/2011 02:57:52 PM 1915 Views
He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM 1117 Views

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