But I think my main problem I had with the second and third books (like I do with a lot of multi-volume work) is that I had a better understanding of the setting, but that the characterizations were very underdeveloped at those points. That and it seemed to take too long to get to certain plot points (as if that ever really changed!).
One of Jordan's arguable "big mistakes" early on was that when he realized he wanted more breathing room to tell the beginning of the story in the style he was aiming for than any single volume would let him, he took the easy way out and rather than re thinking the whole beginning of his story (for instance by being more discriminating with the episodes he really needed vs. all the ideas he had) he divided his original book 1 into a kind of trilogy, obvioulsy adding "episodes" to get full novels out of his original three acts. It does work more or less in EOTW and TDR but it's largely failing in TGH which has all the defects of an overblown Act 2. The really big mistake, though, was to create three almost identical climaxes out of what was no doubt his original big confrontation with Ishamael that brought things back to the first prologue. And while he was at it, why not triple Egwene's captivity as well and why not triple the revelation of Rand as Dragon Reborn? And so instead of Egwene being captured in act 2, we got Egwene getting captured in act 2 thrice, and we got Rand losing Moiraine thrice and son on etc. That's all coherent enough with Jordan's concept of the Pattern repeating itself in great and small ways, but there are ideas like this that gain from staying in the background and not infect the storytelling itself too much....
Jordan ended up with not one "slower" introductory book that you'd expect in a multi-volume effort, but three. That's at least one too much. It's only with book 4 he started getting into the thick of things and turned to the more historical style he was aiming for since day 1 (so he's claimed anyway).
That's the problem with books 1,2,3 Roberts skirted around a lot and, not having done much research on the series's history, never quite nailed down. Jordan had too much to tell in a single book, but solved this out by splitting it in three books that he then padded - and it shows.
And that certainly would explained why I felt these books felt laborious to read, since it does repeat the basic narrative structure as you stated. Good points made, although like I said in my partial response to you above (I realized after the fact that I forgot to answer a few more paragraphs - oops! ), it may be that in mostly approaching it without doing extensive reading on the background, Roberts was bound to miss a few things until he progresses further. Not too many readers want to know the entire story before reading the story, I've noticed
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT.
19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM
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Heh, While I agree with him about it being derivative, I still encourage people to read it.
20/03/2010 02:36:47 AM
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My problem with the reviews:
20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM
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Hear Hear !!! ....................... = ........................ *NM*
20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM
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well I agree and disagree
20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM
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Re: well I agree and disagree
20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM
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I'm amused by some of the responses
20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM
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Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ?
20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM
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No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes
20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM
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I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ?
21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM
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My sister called me chicken once
10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM
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Re: I'm amused by some of the responses
23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM
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And I'm even more amused by this response
24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM
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On a completely unrelated note...
24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM
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Ha!
24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM
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My congratulations then . *NM*
24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM
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Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series
22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM
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There's a point to it?
22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM
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Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM*
24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM
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You're not taking me seriously now, are you?
24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM
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I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place
24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM
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And which, arguably, could be viewed as being done in a hackneyed way
24/03/2010 07:15:55 AM
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I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening?
09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM
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pfft wth-ever
26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM
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Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM
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bla bla bla
29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM
- 1962 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you *NM*
29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM
- 1454 Views
You must have low standards for entertainment
29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM
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Re: You must have low standards for entertainment
29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM
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I know you were, thus the at the least of my comment
29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM
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Unimpressed
29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM
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Isn't that a bit uncharitable, Dom, considering how much you approved of what I did with CoT?
30/03/2010 12:03:48 AM
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Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM
- 1989 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again.
29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
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Awards
29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM
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That link is out of date
29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM
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Re: That link is out of date
29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM
- 1948 Views
This is a battle of win/lose?
29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM
- 1867 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose?
29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM
- 1910 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM
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Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM
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The final point explains the "defense"
30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM
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Re: The final point explains the "defense"
30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM
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No, no, no
30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM
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Re: No, no, no
30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM
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Still continuing, huh?
31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM
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Re: Still continuing, huh?
31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM
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He's now reviewed the third book
26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM
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Well, this time I must disagree with him .
29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM
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I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that
29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM
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Hah!
29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM
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Well...
29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM
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Differing perspectives, I guess.
29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM
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I suppose
29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM
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Re: I suppose
30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM
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True
30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM
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Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM
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Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM
- 1972 Views
But why only them?
30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM
- 1862 Views
The Shadow Rising review
02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM
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I wonder if this borders on trolling
02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM
- 10624 Views
That would be a mistake
02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM
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Re: That would be a mistake
02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM
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I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter
10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM
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Little late to this one as well
10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM
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Perhaps you should have led with this bit
10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM
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I guess I just presumed that people would read the header to his blog
12/04/2010 03:54:10 AM
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What review? I couldn't find one...
02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM
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Re: What review? I couldn't find one...
02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM
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See my comment below
02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM
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Re: See my comment below
03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM
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Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week
07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM
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Speaking of irritation
02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM
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To be fair, even among the RaFOers there have been tons of posts that missed certain events
09/04/2010 03:47:30 PM
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Commentary, then?
02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM
- 1848 Views
Here's the thing...
02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM
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Re: Here's the thing...
02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM
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Re: Commentary, then?
05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM
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for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work
08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM
- 2021 Views
1400 words is long-winded?
09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM
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since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded
09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM
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Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit
10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM
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You are very defensive over this
10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM
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Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else
12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM
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Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts
07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM
- 1969 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM
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Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM
- 1718 Views
Which Invisible Man?
09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM
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He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner
08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM
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To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM
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Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
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Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM
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why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts?
10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM
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Not bothered as much as I am bemused by the ad hominems, to be honest
12/04/2010 04:11:12 AM
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And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus
09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM
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Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument...
09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM
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Well, what was really resolved here?
10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM
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Well...
12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM
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So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then?
12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM
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Yes...
12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM
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Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon?
12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM
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I guess...
13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM
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Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest
13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM
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Nah...
13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM
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He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others
13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM
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Ah, well...
13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM
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Dismissive, much?
13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM
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About that bifurcation...
14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM
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Sorry that I was busy yesterday and didn't have a chance to reply until now
15/04/2010 01:46:54 PM
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I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS.
09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM
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Lord of Chaos commentary
16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM
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No no. It was Lord of Heaven!
16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM
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Yeah, I noticed that
16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM
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I would love the see him review Goodkind...
16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM
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I don't wish that on anyone who doesn't have copious amounts of alcohol
16/04/2010 11:57:41 PM
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A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM
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Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM
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I disagree
29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM
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The Path of Daggers commentary
07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM
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Winter's Heart
21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM
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I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM
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Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM
- 1994 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot.
28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM
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I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote:
28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM
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Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him
25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM
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This guy should be burned at the stake
25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM
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Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark?
26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM
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Oh come on...
26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM
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Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much...
26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM
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Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice...
26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM
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And your point is...?
27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM
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Well...
27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM
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Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble
27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM
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It's not about honour being beschmirched. It's about poor quality arguments. *NM*
30/03/2011 04:09:23 PM
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One year later...
27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM
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Re: One year later...
28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM
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I see you subconsciously support critical takes.
28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM
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No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM*
30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM
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Jealous?
30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM
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You both are jelous of Jordan's tremendous succes.
30/03/2011 10:27:36 PM
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Please learn how to spell the word "jealous" before tossing it about in the cavalier fashion you do
30/03/2011 10:54:36 PM
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The fact that you teach is supposed to be a surprise?
31/03/2011 01:23:45 PM
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After reading the standard-issue checklist of generic, tossabout pejoratives...
01/04/2011 03:06:18 PM
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I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM*
30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM
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Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM*
30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM
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Yep!
30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM
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He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM*
30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM
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