Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil
Sidious Send a noteboard - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM
Ishamael's is the study of good and evil. Exactly what is needed to understand the Dark One. He may not understand biology as well as Aginor, the human mind as well as Graendal, political and military strategy as well as Demandred. But he understands the nature of good and evil better than anyone.
I disagree. In my opinion, Ishamael would argue that any distinction made between Good and Evil is ultimately meaningless. And therefore he has no interest at all in trying to define such a distinction.
Ishamael is a Philosopher, and his specific area of study in the AoL was "meaning" - particularly, the meaning of life. And, in the course of pursuing that study, he convinced himself (through what seemed to him to be a logical train of thought) that all acts & endeavors - essentially, all existance - is futile and meaningless. That's what Rand was referring to when he told Ishamael in TGS: "You were always so full of thoughts, Elan. Your logic destroyed you, didn't it?"
Look at the books Ishamael was purported to have written in the AoL (before he turned to the Shadow). I don't have the Guide with me, so I can't quote the book names exactly, but they were all essentially about the meaninglessness of life. The weren't about Good and Evil at all.
Ishamael is the very epitome of a nihilist. And that nihilism makes him want to destroy the Wheel, and therefore destroy the cycle of birth, futility, meaninglessness, and death it brings (as he sees it).
I don't believe Ishamael turned to the Shadow because he has any special regard for the DO. He turned to the Shadow because his goals coincide with the DO's. Siding with the DO gives him the best opportunity to fulfill his destiny, as he sees it. And, he tries to lure others to the Shadow for the same reason.
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.
In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.
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Ishamael's nature
01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM
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Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking...
01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM
- 801 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees.
01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM
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I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ...
02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM
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Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil
02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM
- 657 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics?
02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM
- 553 Views
Crap
02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM
- 611 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are...
02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM
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Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil
02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM
- 569 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil
02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM
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Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil
07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM
- 518 Views
I doubt that.
08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM
- 491 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking...
02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM
- 539 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature
02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM
- 609 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature
02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM
- 551 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature
02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM
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Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland
02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM
- 877 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least...
08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM
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Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least...
08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM
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Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern.
08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM
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Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern.
09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM
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Because there is a Creator.
09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM
- 461 Views
faulty assumptions
10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM
- 466 Views
Impossible.
10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM
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maybe an analogy will help
10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM
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But therein lies the problem.
10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM
- 460 Views
your own argument is self defeating
11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM
- 489 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned.
11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM
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*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM*
12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM
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Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory
11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM
- 467 Views