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Some good points, but I still disagree. Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 15/02/2010 06:30:50 PM
The sheer arrogance of assuming she is in anyway qualified to give him any of the guidance he needs suggests exactly the problem we skeptics have with the Egewnist scenario that she is going to peacefully cooperate with Rand. He is her superior politically, in governing, in military matters and in the affairs of the world. In what area can she guide him? Elayne's wish to guide him was grounded on his then-inexperienced state, and her lifetime of training for what he was going through, or her being born and raised to rule the country he was currently trying to administer. Nynaeve has the perspective of an older friend who watched him grow up. What does Egwene have? She less experienced in everything except Tower-specific politics, and he needs no guidance for manuevering in the Hall. After all, shouldn't Egwene be solving those problems FOR him?


Agreed.

Logain's an egotistical d-bag, who falsely claimed to be the Dragon Reborn to seek glory and power, got thousands of people killed and currently goes around publicly detracting and undermining Rand. Harine & Shalon were at the Cleansing. Their version of events would be contradicted by Logain telling them his fantasy that the Creator intervened, and can only serve to make Rand or his preferred Sea Folk associates look bad to the MotS for claiming he did it. And Logain has no reason for his position. He has been the witness and beneficiary to one feat of channeling presumed impossible, like every other channeler in the world, he knows of the use of the Choedan Kal on the day the taint was removed, and he knows that the taint ended up on the Power through human action, whereas the Creator's intervention is completely unprecedented in human experience. He could easily find out the truth by questioning Rand's entourage at Algarin's manor, but he prefers to ignore the truth to maintain his self-image as a near-equal to Rand. Instead, he questions the sisters to confirm Min's viewing of his glory. The man's a total ass, and I'd almost rather Rand killed him than Taim.


Actually, agreed here as well. Narishma and Perrin's AM are the only really decent ones we've seen so far. I think Narishma's drawing of Callandor marks him as the next M'Hael (a title which will probably change), and his bond with Merise speaks toward the likely intertwining of the Black and White towers.

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Nevertheless, I still disagree on your primary assertion that the Tower is useless. I think it will prove to be more relevant than other plotlines that have had similar exposure during the series. The only part of it I find irrelevant is Gawyn.

Think of some of the other plots that have occurred:

-Perrin and the Shaido. Nice character development, and I enjoyed this far more on my second read-through, but unnecessary. They could have just been killed by Sammael instead of dispersed.

-Elayne and Nynaeve go to the circus and find a Bowl. Sure, the BotW worked, but just swapped one extreme for another. We've yet to see anything useful happen from that whole plotline, aside from Nynaeve vs. Moghedien.

-Elayne and Andor. Again, irrelevant unless something happens in the next 2 books, but those books could reveal even greater things for Egwene and the tower.

-Even Mat hasn't actually done anything yet. No Moiraine, no useful link to the Seanchan (nor do we know if this will even occur until it is too late), and the dragons still seem inferior to channelling IMO.

Of course, my point here is NOT that the above plot lines are useless or should be excluded. Rather, it's to convey my feeling that not every part of the series needs to contribute something to the Dragon winning at TG. Quite simply, there are other things for the writers to consider. I'll grant that I haven't seen Egwene develop as much as I'd have hoped, but the events at the Tower were very interesting to me. Elaida was an excellent case study in how bad decision making ruins the best of intentions, the Halls were both sharp jabs at politics, the sisters themselves were lessons about the dangers of apathy and of overvaluing traditions.

At the very least, I think its prudent to reserve judgement for two more books. Egwene still may have some serious character development ahead - encounters with Bloodknives, Mesaana and Rand will all be tests that could make her actually think introspectively for a change. In fact, I'd say the fact that she has the wrong opinion about how to deal with Rand, plus the fact that we know this will likely change, points to an event where she actually does pause and act with some humility for once.
This message last edited by Lord Haart on 15/02/2010 at 06:31:53 PM
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So what was the point of the White Tower struggle? - 07/02/2010 04:41:58 AM 1799 Views
I think the breaking of the tower was.... - 07/02/2010 07:55:48 AM 764 Views
Nice idea, that does seem to make sense in hindsight. - 07/02/2010 06:18:35 PM 557 Views
Yes, but that isn't the point. - 08/02/2010 04:14:32 AM 647 Views
Re: Yes, but that isn't the point. - 08/02/2010 04:40:52 AM 620 Views
YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal? - 08/02/2010 04:55:46 AM 548 Views
Re: YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal? - 08/02/2010 02:43:48 PM 655 Views
Re: YES!! The SPLIT is important. So why is ENDING the split such a necessary goal? - 10/02/2010 09:49:59 PM 615 Views
Re: the wise ones. - 13/02/2010 10:21:55 AM 459 Views
They're not the biggest clan... - 13/02/2010 02:20:38 PM 562 Views
Thank you - 15/02/2010 01:24:05 PM 664 Views
No problem. *NM* - 15/02/2010 09:05:11 PM 231 Views
Re: So what was the point of the White Tower struggle? - 07/02/2010 06:14:31 PM 657 Views
Re: The point was that Rand needed the division. - 07/02/2010 08:34:10 PM 608 Views
small disagreement - 07/02/2010 08:42:07 PM 549 Views
Re: small disagreement - 08/02/2010 04:37:03 AM 486 Views
Egwene and Siuan have noted that there are plenty of the new Novices - 15/02/2010 04:22:35 PM 555 Views
For that matter, what is the point of Andor? - 08/02/2010 06:08:32 AM 609 Views
Re: For that matter, what is the point of Andor? - 08/02/2010 03:38:54 PM 555 Views
Especially true if - 08/02/2010 07:16:04 PM 525 Views
But Tar Valon is critical too. - 08/02/2010 07:41:43 PM 570 Views
Really? - 10/02/2010 05:30:02 AM 488 Views
Three women in a boat... - 10/02/2010 09:12:41 PM 531 Views
Nothing is ever given as a location for that boat that I recall. - 11/02/2010 11:54:39 PM 475 Views
So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower. - 10/02/2010 10:13:56 PM 608 Views
Re: So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower. - 12/02/2010 12:43:19 AM 632 Views
In this, I agree with Fionwe. - 13/02/2010 10:31:07 AM 500 Views
Re: So what? This is more or less true, but it has zero relevance to the issue of the Tower. - 15/02/2010 02:23:57 PM 639 Views
Some good points, but I still disagree. - 15/02/2010 06:30:50 PM 530 Views
- 15/02/2010 10:08:48 PM 618 Views
my thoughts - 09/02/2010 12:58:30 PM 718 Views
Belief and order give strength. - 10/02/2010 11:20:01 PM 550 Views
To pad the last few books in order to make Egwene the Amyrlin. - 17/02/2010 05:25:22 PM 506 Views
I can't say I agree with the use of the term "padding". - 17/02/2010 06:07:25 PM 475 Views
Re: I can't say I agree with the use of the term "padding". - 22/02/2010 11:05:44 PM 537 Views
To unite the Tower under competent leadership, of course. - 23/02/2010 04:55:02 AM 977 Views
Does a main plotline HAVE to help defeat the DO? - 26/02/2010 04:11:30 PM 661 Views

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