Some good points, but I still disagree. - Edit 2
Before modification by Lord Haart at 15/02/2010 06:31:53 PM
The sheer arrogance of assuming she is in anyway qualified to give him any of the guidance he needs suggests exactly the problem we skeptics have with the Egewnist scenario that she is going to peacefully cooperate with Rand. He is her superior politically, in governing, in military matters and in the affairs of the world. In what area can she guide him? Elayne's wish to guide him was grounded on his then-inexperienced state, and her lifetime of training for what he was going through, or her being born and raised to rule the country he was currently trying to administer. Nynaeve has the perspective of an older friend who watched him grow up. What does Egwene have? She less experienced in everything except Tower-specific politics, and he needs no guidance for manuevering in the Hall. After all, shouldn't Egwene be solving those problems FOR him?
Agreed.
Actually, agreed here as well. Narishma and Perrin's AM are the only really decent ones we've seen so far. I think Narishma's drawing of Callandor marks him as the next M'Hael (a title which will probably change), and his bond with Merise speaks toward the likely intertwining of the Black and White towers.
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Nevertheless, I still disagree on your primary assertion that the Tower is useless. I think it will prove to be more relevant than other plotlines that have had similar exposure during the series. The only part of it I find irrelevant is Gawyn.
Think of some of the other plots that have occurred:
-Perrin and the Shaido. Nice character development, and I enjoyed this far more on my second read-through, but unnecessary. They could have just been killed by Sammael instead of dispersed.
-Elayne and Nynaeve go to the circus and find a Bowl. Sure, the BotW worked, but just swapped one extreme for another. We've yet to see anything useful happen from that whole plotline, aside from Nynaeve vs. Moghedien.
-Elayne and Andor. Again, irrelevant unless something happens in the next 2 books, but those books could reveal even greater things for Egwene and the tower.
-Even Mat hasn't actually done anything yet. No Moiraine, no useful link to the Seanchan (nor do we know if this will even occur until it is too late), and the dragons still seem inferior to channelling IMO.
Of course, my point here is NOT that the above plot lines are useless or should be excluded. Rather, it's to convey my feeling that not every part of the series needs to contribute something to the Dragon winning at TG. Quite simply, there are other things for the writers to consider. I'll grant that I haven't seen Egwene develop as much as I'd have hoped, but the events at the Tower were very interesting to me. Elaida was an excellent case study in how bad decision making ruins the best of intentions, the Halls were both sharp jabs at politics, the sisters themselves were lessons about the dangers of apathy and of overvaluing traditions.
At the very least, I think its prudent to reserve judgement for two more books. Egwene still may have some serious character development ahead - encounters with Bloodknives, Mesaana and Rand will all be tests that could make her actually think introspectively for a change. In fact, I'd say the fact that she has the wrong opinion about how to deal with Rand, plus the fact that we know this will likely change, points to an event where she actually does pause and act with some humility for once.
Agreed.
Logain's an egotistical d-bag, who falsely claimed to be the Dragon Reborn to seek glory and power, got thousands of people killed and currently goes around publicly detracting and undermining Rand. Harine & Shalon were at the Cleansing. Their version of events would be contradicted by Logain telling them his fantasy that the Creator intervened, and can only serve to make Rand or his preferred Sea Folk associates look bad to the MotS for claiming he did it. And Logain has no reason for his position. He has been the witness and beneficiary to one feat of channeling presumed impossible, like every other channeler in the world, he knows of the use of the Choedan Kal on the day the taint was removed, and he knows that the taint ended up on the Power through human action, whereas the Creator's intervention is completely unprecedented in human experience. He could easily find out the truth by questioning Rand's entourage at Algarin's manor, but he prefers to ignore the truth to maintain his self-image as a near-equal to Rand. Instead, he questions the sisters to confirm Min's viewing of his glory. The man's a total ass, and I'd almost rather Rand killed him than Taim.
Actually, agreed here as well. Narishma and Perrin's AM are the only really decent ones we've seen so far. I think Narishma's drawing of Callandor marks him as the next M'Hael (a title which will probably change), and his bond with Merise speaks toward the likely intertwining of the Black and White towers.
--------------------
Nevertheless, I still disagree on your primary assertion that the Tower is useless. I think it will prove to be more relevant than other plotlines that have had similar exposure during the series. The only part of it I find irrelevant is Gawyn.
Think of some of the other plots that have occurred:
-Perrin and the Shaido. Nice character development, and I enjoyed this far more on my second read-through, but unnecessary. They could have just been killed by Sammael instead of dispersed.
-Elayne and Nynaeve go to the circus and find a Bowl. Sure, the BotW worked, but just swapped one extreme for another. We've yet to see anything useful happen from that whole plotline, aside from Nynaeve vs. Moghedien.
-Elayne and Andor. Again, irrelevant unless something happens in the next 2 books, but those books could reveal even greater things for Egwene and the tower.
-Even Mat hasn't actually done anything yet. No Moiraine, no useful link to the Seanchan (nor do we know if this will even occur until it is too late), and the dragons still seem inferior to channelling IMO.
Of course, my point here is NOT that the above plot lines are useless or should be excluded. Rather, it's to convey my feeling that not every part of the series needs to contribute something to the Dragon winning at TG. Quite simply, there are other things for the writers to consider. I'll grant that I haven't seen Egwene develop as much as I'd have hoped, but the events at the Tower were very interesting to me. Elaida was an excellent case study in how bad decision making ruins the best of intentions, the Halls were both sharp jabs at politics, the sisters themselves were lessons about the dangers of apathy and of overvaluing traditions.
At the very least, I think its prudent to reserve judgement for two more books. Egwene still may have some serious character development ahead - encounters with Bloodknives, Mesaana and Rand will all be tests that could make her actually think introspectively for a change. In fact, I'd say the fact that she has the wrong opinion about how to deal with Rand, plus the fact that we know this will likely change, points to an event where she actually does pause and act with some humility for once.