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I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... Shishka Send a noteboard - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM
Another key quote/Q&A from Brandon:

Q. Was the Compulsion which Elza told Semirhage about, Verin's work from after Dumai's Wells, and was it Shaidar Haran who told her about it and to ask Semirhage to remove it?

A. Yes.


So, we know for a fact that it was SH who told Elza about her Compulsion, AND told her to have Semirhage remove it.

If Graendal was involved in this plot at all (e.g. it was Graendal who delved Elza and told SH about the Compulsion), SH would have had Graendal remove the Complusion right then and there, rather than tell Elza to go have Semirhage remove it. Especially since Graendal is the most expert on Compulsion of all the Forsaken, so we're lead to believe.

The only real mystery in all this, it seems to me, is how SH knew/determined that Elza had been Compelled.

My guess is, SH has a special ability to ... evaluate ... the mental condition (amongst other things) of those who've sworn to the DO. Here's another telling summary of what Brandon said about SH:

This lead to lots of discussion about swearing to the Shadow – basically, it’s a very bad idea and you forfeit some very basic protections when you do. Shaidar Haran has special power over those that swear to the Dark One, and the Forsaken in particular. I asked about Alviarin’s special mark, and he said Shaidar Haran has similar power over her. The implication is that there are lots of ramifications for swearing to the Dark One. Brandon mentioned that this makes Verin all the more remarkable.

I guess that "special power" enabled SH to determine that Elza had been Compelled. But, he couldn't do anything about it himself - he had to have Semirhage remove it.

(Edit: There's a second mystery too - how Elza learned those special AoL weaves. And, I suspect SH was responsible for that, too. Not by showing her weaves - he can't channel saidar, obviously. But rather by implanting how to do it in her mind, much like the 'Finn implanted memories (and associated skills) in Mat's mind. SH could have retrieved the information he implanted in Elza from one of the other female Forsaken - Cyndane or Moggy, perhaps.

This explanation would help explain Brandon's quote saying that "Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.". I would guess this "memory implant" (if that's what really happened) was not particular pleasant. Plus, note the wording "given knowledge of", rather than "taught". That fits pretty well with what I suggested.

These ideas make SH rather powerful, I admit, but not much more than the 'Finn, really.)
Rise and fall, turn the Wheel,
'cause all life is
is really just a circle.

-BHT&tM
This message last edited by Shishka on 14/01/2010 at 10:59:50 PM
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Elza's Compulsion - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 1929 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 877 Views
I disagree - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 719 Views
except work with Semirhage! - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 658 Views
Well... - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 726 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 258 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 234 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 565 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 211 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 498 Views
The question is... - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 518 Views
Re: The question is... - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 508 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 545 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 510 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 532 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 508 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 863 Views
I know... - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 723 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 804 Views
That doesn't prove anything... - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 741 Views
It proves enough for me ... - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 630 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 477 Views
not really - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 496 Views
I don't understand your theory - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 485 Views
It's very simple - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 473 Views
So in other words - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 595 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 495 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 518 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 523 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 513 Views
But... - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 501 Views
Exactly my point - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 541 Views
But by this logic... - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 478 Views
Yes... - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 537 Views
While you are right... - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 525 Views
as we've discussed in another thread - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 902 Views
I mean... - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 520 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 534 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 472 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 234 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 722 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 760 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 557 Views
I have a hard time... - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 567 Views
I agree with you - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 493 Views
and you may very well be correct - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 716 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 584 Views
Anything is possible ... - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 590 Views
who knows - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 560 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 467 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 645 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 527 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 498 Views
Good point! - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 583 Views
Re: Good point! - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 474 Views
I agree - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 458 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 544 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 537 Views
damn double posting - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 485 Views
As it is often the case... - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 570 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 533 Views
Well... - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 428 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 466 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 575 Views
Uhhh? - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 719 Views
One point - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 671 Views
Re: One point - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 588 Views
Elza truly believes that... - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 586 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 631 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 564 Views
fair enough - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 619 Views
Not quite - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 609 Views

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