I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ...
Shishka Send a noteboard - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM
Another key quote/Q&A from Brandon:
Q. Was the Compulsion which Elza told Semirhage about, Verin's work from after Dumai's Wells, and was it Shaidar Haran who told her about it and to ask Semirhage to remove it?
A. Yes.
So, we know for a fact that it was SH who told Elza about her Compulsion, AND told her to have Semirhage remove it.
If Graendal was involved in this plot at all (e.g. it was Graendal who delved Elza and told SH about the Compulsion), SH would have had Graendal remove the Complusion right then and there, rather than tell Elza to go have Semirhage remove it. Especially since Graendal is the most expert on Compulsion of all the Forsaken, so we're lead to believe.
The only real mystery in all this, it seems to me, is how SH knew/determined that Elza had been Compelled.
My guess is, SH has a special ability to ... evaluate ... the mental condition (amongst other things) of those who've sworn to the DO. Here's another telling summary of what Brandon said about SH:
This lead to lots of discussion about swearing to the Shadow – basically, it’s a very bad idea and you forfeit some very basic protections when you do. Shaidar Haran has special power over those that swear to the Dark One, and the Forsaken in particular. I asked about Alviarin’s special mark, and he said Shaidar Haran has similar power over her. The implication is that there are lots of ramifications for swearing to the Dark One. Brandon mentioned that this makes Verin all the more remarkable.
I guess that "special power" enabled SH to determine that Elza had been Compelled. But, he couldn't do anything about it himself - he had to have Semirhage remove it.
(Edit: There's a second mystery too - how Elza learned those special AoL weaves. And, I suspect SH was responsible for that, too. Not by showing her weaves - he can't channel saidar, obviously. But rather by implanting how to do it in her mind, much like the 'Finn implanted memories (and associated skills) in Mat's mind. SH could have retrieved the information he implanted in Elza from one of the other female Forsaken - Cyndane or Moggy, perhaps.
This explanation would help explain Brandon's quote saying that "Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.". I would guess this "memory implant" (if that's what really happened) was not particular pleasant. Plus, note the wording "given knowledge of", rather than "taught". That fits pretty well with what I suggested.
These ideas make SH rather powerful, I admit, but not much more than the 'Finn, really.)
Q. Was the Compulsion which Elza told Semirhage about, Verin's work from after Dumai's Wells, and was it Shaidar Haran who told her about it and to ask Semirhage to remove it?
A. Yes.
So, we know for a fact that it was SH who told Elza about her Compulsion, AND told her to have Semirhage remove it.
If Graendal was involved in this plot at all (e.g. it was Graendal who delved Elza and told SH about the Compulsion), SH would have had Graendal remove the Complusion right then and there, rather than tell Elza to go have Semirhage remove it. Especially since Graendal is the most expert on Compulsion of all the Forsaken, so we're lead to believe.
The only real mystery in all this, it seems to me, is how SH knew/determined that Elza had been Compelled.
My guess is, SH has a special ability to ... evaluate ... the mental condition (amongst other things) of those who've sworn to the DO. Here's another telling summary of what Brandon said about SH:
This lead to lots of discussion about swearing to the Shadow – basically, it’s a very bad idea and you forfeit some very basic protections when you do. Shaidar Haran has special power over those that swear to the Dark One, and the Forsaken in particular. I asked about Alviarin’s special mark, and he said Shaidar Haran has similar power over her. The implication is that there are lots of ramifications for swearing to the Dark One. Brandon mentioned that this makes Verin all the more remarkable.
I guess that "special power" enabled SH to determine that Elza had been Compelled. But, he couldn't do anything about it himself - he had to have Semirhage remove it.
(Edit: There's a second mystery too - how Elza learned those special AoL weaves. And, I suspect SH was responsible for that, too. Not by showing her weaves - he can't channel saidar, obviously. But rather by implanting how to do it in her mind, much like the 'Finn implanted memories (and associated skills) in Mat's mind. SH could have retrieved the information he implanted in Elza from one of the other female Forsaken - Cyndane or Moggy, perhaps.
This explanation would help explain Brandon's quote saying that "Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her.". I would guess this "memory implant" (if that's what really happened) was not particular pleasant. Plus, note the wording "given knowledge of", rather than "taught". That fits pretty well with what I suggested.
These ideas make SH rather powerful, I admit, but not much more than the 'Finn, really.)
Rise and fall, turn the Wheel,
'cause all life is
is really just a circle.
-BHT&tM
'cause all life is
is really just a circle.
-BHT&tM
This message last edited by Shishka on 14/01/2010 at 10:59:50 PM
Elza's Compulsion
14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM
- 1890 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story
14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM
- 820 Views
I disagree
14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM
- 675 Views
except work with Semirhage!
14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM
- 606 Views
Well...
14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
- 676 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM*
14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM
- 239 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM*
15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM
- 215 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote
15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM
- 512 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM*
16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM
- 203 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes
16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM
- 455 Views
The question is...
16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM
- 472 Views
Re: The question is...
16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM
- 451 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM*
16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM
- 487 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that
16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM
- 462 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though
16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM
- 474 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently?
16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM
- 463 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ...
14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM
- 754 Views
That doesn't prove anything...
14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM
- 690 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything...
15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM
- 426 Views
not really
15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM
- 475 Views
I don't understand your theory
16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM
- 438 Views
It's very simple
16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM
- 427 Views
So in other words
17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM
- 546 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct
17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM
- 444 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct
18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM
- 472 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head
18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM
- 458 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer
18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM
- 460 Views
But...
18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM
- 455 Views
But by this logic...
18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM
- 458 Views
Yes...
18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM
- 502 Views
While you are right...
18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM
- 474 Views
as we've discussed in another thread
18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM
- 849 Views
I mean...
19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM
- 467 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL?
19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM
- 485 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote.
19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM
- 423 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM*
19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM
- 214 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret...
18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM
- 507 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later
14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM
- 542 Views
Anything is possible ...
14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM
- 539 Views
who knows
14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM
- 508 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ...
15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM
- 443 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end
15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM
- 595 Views
Good point!
15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM
- 526 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me
15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM
- 492 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me
15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM
- 487 Views
this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that
15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM
- 467 Views
As it is often the case...
16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM
- 523 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please.
16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM
- 482 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story
14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM
- 523 Views
Uhhh?
14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM
- 671 Views
One point
14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM
- 613 Views
Elza truly believes that...
14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM
- 540 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion"
14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM
- 581 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed.
15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM
- 516 Views
Not quite
14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM
- 564 Views
But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM*
16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM
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