Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 03/11/2012 06:15:49 PM
and if Flinn's mixed circle was only equal to Demandred explain how they survived the encounter.
Are you seriously suggesting that Flinn is as skilled as Demandred? Get a grip. The first weaves Flinn threw at Demandred were Powerful, but obviously not at full power. Just like Daigian Flinn didn't draw on the full power of his circle until he later.
Honestly, I think you read the series looking specifically for ways to make Lanfear stronger than anyone else. Next you'll be suggesting that she is as strong as Rand. I truly don't understand why you think Strength is so important. We've seen many times that skill is the most important factor when Channeling.
Cyndane v. Alivia, Graendal v. Moghedien & Cyndane, Graendal's comments about Sommeryn, Cadsuane noting how little AS innovate with the Power, a thousand off handed comments by all of the Forsaken about "half trained children".
As for Egwene's level ... Moghedien noted Elayne on the streets even before she was at half her strength. The ONLY other women she's ever noted strength with are Nynaeve and Hessalam. Clearly Elayne at full potential is going to be near to Moghedien in strength or Moghedien wouldn't have bothered to notice her. Moghedien only cares about the exceptionally strong Channelers.
No argument that Moghedien is the weakest, but she is also the least skilled with the OP, but even still she thinks to herself that she is on the same footing as Hessalam. Clearly she's close enough in skill and power to stand a fighting chance against any of the other Forsaken. You placing her at like 30-40% weaker is just ridiculous. She would be practically a slave to all the others if she was at such a huge disadvantage. In addition, there is no way she survives during the WoP when there are literally millions of Channelers who are Forsaken. Yes she took out more Powerful channelers through her tactics, but there were only 29 out of MILLIONS the DO let Channel the TP ... Moghedien is without a doubt one of them (given her reaction to Taim she would have most certainly raged about Moridin using the TP if she had not been given access), which means she was considered one of the strongest and most skilled.
Lanfear being 3x Moiraine is not only unnecessary but it's implausible. Marginalizing the AS strength is also unnecessary as it's their lack of training that is the real problem. The sheer volume of knowledge that they have lost in the 3000+ years is stunning! I don't think RJ really thought too much about their actual strength, at least not beyond deferring ect... which he also went out of his way to point out as stupid, but he wove into the story over and over and over how much skill had been lost. Yes the Tower is also growing weaker, then we have RJ introduce a handful of Uber Channelers to the Tower to prove out the point that these women still existed. The man said himself strength wasn't what determined the outcome of a battle.
Looking at Moiraine's strength level she is well more than 1/2 of Egwene ... Amy's is not as strong as Moiraine IMO (there are conflicting quotes), I place her closer to Beonin or Carlinya with Melaine being a few levels weaker. Each are still stronger than the majority of AS, which the quotes tells us. Moiraine is probably more like 65% of Egwene.
Are you seriously suggesting that Flinn is as skilled as Demandred? Get a grip. The first weaves Flinn threw at Demandred were Powerful, but obviously not at full power. Just like Daigian Flinn didn't draw on the full power of his circle until he later.
Honestly, I think you read the series looking specifically for ways to make Lanfear stronger than anyone else. Next you'll be suggesting that she is as strong as Rand. I truly don't understand why you think Strength is so important. We've seen many times that skill is the most important factor when Channeling.
Cyndane v. Alivia, Graendal v. Moghedien & Cyndane, Graendal's comments about Sommeryn, Cadsuane noting how little AS innovate with the Power, a thousand off handed comments by all of the Forsaken about "half trained children".
As for Egwene's level ... Moghedien noted Elayne on the streets even before she was at half her strength. The ONLY other women she's ever noted strength with are Nynaeve and Hessalam. Clearly Elayne at full potential is going to be near to Moghedien in strength or Moghedien wouldn't have bothered to notice her. Moghedien only cares about the exceptionally strong Channelers.
No argument that Moghedien is the weakest, but she is also the least skilled with the OP, but even still she thinks to herself that she is on the same footing as Hessalam. Clearly she's close enough in skill and power to stand a fighting chance against any of the other Forsaken. You placing her at like 30-40% weaker is just ridiculous. She would be practically a slave to all the others if she was at such a huge disadvantage. In addition, there is no way she survives during the WoP when there are literally millions of Channelers who are Forsaken. Yes she took out more Powerful channelers through her tactics, but there were only 29 out of MILLIONS the DO let Channel the TP ... Moghedien is without a doubt one of them (given her reaction to Taim she would have most certainly raged about Moridin using the TP if she had not been given access), which means she was considered one of the strongest and most skilled.
Lanfear being 3x Moiraine is not only unnecessary but it's implausible. Marginalizing the AS strength is also unnecessary as it's their lack of training that is the real problem. The sheer volume of knowledge that they have lost in the 3000+ years is stunning! I don't think RJ really thought too much about their actual strength, at least not beyond deferring ect... which he also went out of his way to point out as stupid, but he wove into the story over and over and over how much skill had been lost. Yes the Tower is also growing weaker, then we have RJ introduce a handful of Uber Channelers to the Tower to prove out the point that these women still existed. The man said himself strength wasn't what determined the outcome of a battle.
Looking at Moiraine's strength level she is well more than 1/2 of Egwene ... Amy's is not as strong as Moiraine IMO (there are conflicting quotes), I place her closer to Beonin or Carlinya with Melaine being a few levels weaker. Each are still stronger than the majority of AS, which the quotes tells us. Moiraine is probably more like 65% of Egwene.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 03/11/2012 at 06:16:55 PM
Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
31/10/2012 11:30:42 AM
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Who said RJ created a 100 point scale? I always assumed we did to make this easier to follow
31/10/2012 02:22:51 PM
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One more point here
31/10/2012 03:02:34 PM
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I've think I've finally done it. I've solved the entire Curve. Daigian is the key...
01/11/2012 09:20:57 AM
- 930 Views
Did some playing with your numbers to make this work better
01/11/2012 02:13:00 PM
- 888 Views
The Mean and SD are set by Daigian's position. Your options are therefore not possible...
02/11/2012 07:49:24 AM
- 834 Views
Yet you have many more SD between the Mean and Lanfear than you do Morgase and the Mean
02/11/2012 02:39:51 PM
- 719 Views
I absolutely agree. The lower side of the curve MUST be intersected by zero after 1 SD...
02/11/2012 03:03:52 PM
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I am not convinced Moiraine is the Mean. Merely 50% of Lanfear
02/11/2012 04:23:57 PM
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But on a Bell Curve the Mean IS 50% of Lanfear. You've just disproven your own contention.
02/11/2012 04:40:31 PM
- 684 Views
OMG no it is NOT!
02/11/2012 05:16:36 PM
- 623 Views
I agree with that. But please honestly look at the math I presented. It disproves the Bell Curve.
02/11/2012 05:24:41 PM
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It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved.
02/11/2012 06:07:19 PM
- 730 Views
Confusing post...
02/11/2012 06:30:40 PM
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If you choose to ignore the author go right ahead. I just think you are wrong
02/11/2012 09:05:14 PM
- 814 Views
Re: It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved.
02/11/2012 07:11:57 PM
- 708 Views
I think the number is about 10
03/11/2012 08:42:08 AM
- 780 Views
Nope
03/11/2012 04:14:45 PM
- 713 Views
Re: Nope
03/11/2012 04:39:07 PM
- 751 Views
Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength
03/11/2012 06:15:49 PM
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Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
01/11/2012 06:23:07 PM
- 762 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
01/11/2012 09:48:04 PM
- 722 Views
I'll have to disagree with much of this
03/11/2012 07:46:31 AM
- 777 Views
Why do you always think Strength is the point
03/11/2012 04:35:26 PM
- 547 Views
I don't - I merely appreciate it as a factor
03/11/2012 04:48:24 PM
- 650 Views
0 Evidence? Cyndane v. Alivia is plenty of evidence EDIT with exact quote
03/11/2012 06:17:39 PM
- 676 Views
One other thing you have forgotten about
03/11/2012 10:13:09 PM
- 659 Views
Your agenda blinds you to logic yet again...As I'll simply demonstrate with your example here...
03/11/2012 11:08:13 PM
- 717 Views
Nope, the only experience she has in reality is against Rand
03/11/2012 11:09:54 PM
- 620 Views
Nonsense.
03/11/2012 11:11:05 PM
- 653 Views
Believe as you will
03/11/2012 11:26:50 PM
- 813 Views
That's a classic.
04/11/2012 12:06:13 AM
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You misquote on a regular basis and have no grasp of the timeline in the series
04/11/2012 01:36:37 AM
- 538 Views
Hmm...
04/11/2012 07:08:04 AM
- 863 Views
stop getting all indignant ... I'm really not trying to be nasty to you
04/11/2012 04:20:06 PM
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Reply to your EDIT: I think YOU have a totally warped perspective, based on what you wish for.
03/11/2012 11:16:29 PM
- 662 Views
Funny that's exactly how I see your perspective
03/11/2012 11:25:52 PM
- 683 Views
I don't need to interpret the following in any way other than the obvious to get the picture...
04/11/2012 12:17:53 AM
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as usual you miss that there is a timeline and strength growth throughout the series *NM*
04/11/2012 01:47:41 AM
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