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Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups DomA Send a noteboard - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM
The passage I was thinking of was actually in reference to the SC not the general BA.

But the even being in a room with a hooded SC group is telling. Let's say Katerine is called in to meet with the SC ... they are all hooded. Do you think she would miss Galina in that group? As far as we know there are maybe a dozen or so women in her Strength category or above. At the very least Katerine knows one of those few women is BA. From there it wouldn't take much to figure out which one ... especially if she starts getting instruction to push Galina forward for a new role or some such.

Verin didn't need to be SC for her to have managed the feat she did... she just needed to figure out ways around her new Oaths.


Verin didn't need to be a member of the SC to work to identify sisters, but she's pretty old and given her other goals (of learning as much as she could of the DO's plans, from the Forsaken etc.), it's a position she would have made everything she could to obtain, and given how many times she was involved without raising suspicion (from Alviarin), I suspect she was very high ranking indeed. Next to Galina in rank is certainly a possibility, she seemed to know Alviarin was the leader of the SC. Alviarin brought her to Fal Dara where she's the BA who got close to Siuan/Moiraine there, she was the one who disappeared to tail Rand, who brought back the Horn to the WT, who let the BA know about Siuan's hunt, she was let again be in Rand's entourage (and decided at a crucial point she had to disappear, it speaks of her being known to the Forsaken and their spy etc.). That she was Alviarin's most trusted agent and one of the two women she could speak to openly as leader of the SC would make a lot of sense. More sense than if Verin is only a rank-and-file who gets written orders but seems to meddle of her own initiative a whole lot. In her scene with Egwene, Verin alludes to a debate about letting her or not give notes to Egwene about the 13 BA who went to Tear, and deciding she had no choice. I'm pretty sure the SC doesn't debate things with rank-and-file, that this was a debate among the SC Verin was part of.

I think we've seen the SC in action on screen only once in the series (well that and their capture of Tamra, but for this we know only Galina was involved, and the Tower Coup where we saw mostly Alviarin/Sheriam/Galina), and it's in the debate about dwindling that went on for years - the top dividing debate among AS - where they appeared to work in coordination.... three women we know were involved personally where Alviarin, Verin and Sheriam.. and unknown Reds with whom Sheriam was nearly coming to shouting matches. The whole ploy would have been far easier to organize among SC members than by messages sent by rank-and-file.

For Sheriam it's an implication she made in her POV that she strived for a high rank by ambition. Her strength, her key position, the fact she remained mostly in the WT, had the trust and friendship of the Amyrlin and the fact she was a very high ranking Blue would make her a likely candidate to enter the council. In the Tower Coup, Sheriam played a key role, pretending to fight, and organizing the escape of many novices and most of the Accepted. She was likely still a junior member, but I think she's one of those BA who knew a lot of the actual plans (most of the rank-and-file BA don't seem to have known much about what truly happened with the Tower Coup).

As for the meetings, I don't debate the fact they could narrow down and puzzle out who the members were based on strength, I just find it fairly obvious RJ would not have overlooked this and maniacal about such details as he was, he no doubt conceived of a trick they used. It would be more profitable to discuss how they possibly did that then debate whether this was a huge mistake by RJ (which seems to be your point).

Brandon pretty much deprived us of whatever "BA resolution" RJ had in mind to offer by failing to continue Alviarin's storyline. For a few books, RJ was starting to reveal internal details about the BA, knowing their downfall was coming and how. At the end, Alviarin was on to Talene and the hunters, and getting close to Egwene. She appeared in a chapter written or outlined by RJ, then nothing. We'll probably have to wait for the Encyclopedia to discover many of the details concerning the organization that RJ could have used in Alviarin's last pre-purge POVs. RJ'S method to start with the core then work outward by adding layers seems to have disserved us with Egwene's storyline, especially with the BA hunt. We got the core more or less intact, without the missing layers (counter POV and so on) RJ would have worked on at a later stage.
This message last edited by DomA on 15/10/2012 at 02:32:36 PM
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Misc observations from my latest re-read - 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM 2943 Views
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Problem is... - 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM 1222 Views
Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM 1065 Views
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Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1017 Views
Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM 1154 Views
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When did I say I bought into Linda's theories? - 15/10/2012 05:29:27 AM 1020 Views
Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM 1132 Views
The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all - 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM 1077 Views
IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR - 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM 1093 Views
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So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower? - 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM 1043 Views
Finally! I was beginning to despair of your literacy! - 15/10/2012 04:34:18 AM 1124 Views
now I am questioning your literacy *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:40:45 AM 709 Views
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Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM 1147 Views
Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM 1108 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 01:01:47 PM 1185 Views
Just to be clear - 17/10/2012 03:58:58 PM 1017 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 18/10/2012 01:23:48 AM 1104 Views
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And an answer to the rest of your "points" - 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM 1276 Views
Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy - 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM 1078 Views
Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote: - 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM 1158 Views
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To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM 1016 Views
Re: To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:27:47 AM 1093 Views
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And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM 637 Views
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True to a point - 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM 1022 Views
Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM 1079 Views
Perhaps not. But a woman like Sheriam would stick out - 15/10/2012 03:37:12 AM 1027 Views
Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM 1099 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC? - 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM 988 Views
Galina isn't young. *NM* - 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM 714 Views
Yes she is - 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM 1135 Views
85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS" - 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM 1104 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM 1046 Views
Re: She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 08:10:58 PM 1090 Views
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You mean the SC? - 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM 1138 Views
No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM 1144 Views
Re: No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM 1106 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM 976 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM 1062 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM 1018 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM 1152 Views
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Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1257 Views
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Re: I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM 1011 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM 1103 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM 975 Views
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Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM 1038 Views
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*double sigh* - 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM 1051 Views
Re: *double sigh* - 19/10/2012 05:48:25 PM 1073 Views
Agreed *NM* - 20/10/2012 04:57:18 PM 624 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM 1173 Views
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Not conclusive? - 18/10/2012 08:49:49 PM 1008 Views
Don't put words in my mouth that I never said - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 978 Views
double post *NM* - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 631 Views
Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM 1193 Views
Re: Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 17/10/2012 08:33:27 PM 1212 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well - 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM 989 Views
Just a note about Bair - 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM 1119 Views
I don't see how it could be possible - 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM 999 Views
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Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM 1208 Views

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