Active Users:1142 Time:23/11/2024 04:04:52 AM
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups DomA Send a noteboard - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM
The passage I was thinking of was actually in reference to the SC not the general BA.

But the even being in a room with a hooded SC group is telling. Let's say Katerine is called in to meet with the SC ... they are all hooded. Do you think she would miss Galina in that group? As far as we know there are maybe a dozen or so women in her Strength category or above. At the very least Katerine knows one of those few women is BA. From there it wouldn't take much to figure out which one ... especially if she starts getting instruction to push Galina forward for a new role or some such.

Verin didn't need to be SC for her to have managed the feat she did... she just needed to figure out ways around her new Oaths.


Verin didn't need to be a member of the SC to work to identify sisters, but she's pretty old and given her other goals (of learning as much as she could of the DO's plans, from the Forsaken etc.), it's a position she would have made everything she could to obtain, and given how many times she was involved without raising suspicion (from Alviarin), I suspect she was very high ranking indeed. Next to Galina in rank is certainly a possibility, she seemed to know Alviarin was the leader of the SC. Alviarin brought her to Fal Dara where she's the BA who got close to Siuan/Moiraine there, she was the one who disappeared to tail Rand, who brought back the Horn to the WT, who let the BA know about Siuan's hunt, she was let again be in Rand's entourage (and decided at a crucial point she had to disappear, it speaks of her being known to the Forsaken and their spy etc.). That she was Alviarin's most trusted agent and one of the two women she could speak to openly as leader of the SC would make a lot of sense. More sense than if Verin is only a rank-and-file who gets written orders but seems to meddle of her own initiative a whole lot. In her scene with Egwene, Verin alludes to a debate about letting her or not give notes to Egwene about the 13 BA who went to Tear, and deciding she had no choice. I'm pretty sure the SC doesn't debate things with rank-and-file, that this was a debate among the SC Verin was part of.

I think we've seen the SC in action on screen only once in the series (well that and their capture of Tamra, but for this we know only Galina was involved, and the Tower Coup where we saw mostly Alviarin/Sheriam/Galina), and it's in the debate about dwindling that went on for years - the top dividing debate among AS - where they appeared to work in coordination.... three women we know were involved personally where Alviarin, Verin and Sheriam.. and unknown Reds with whom Sheriam was nearly coming to shouting matches. The whole ploy would have been far easier to organize among SC members than by messages sent by rank-and-file.

For Sheriam it's an implication she made in her POV that she strived for a high rank by ambition. Her strength, her key position, the fact she remained mostly in the WT, had the trust and friendship of the Amyrlin and the fact she was a very high ranking Blue would make her a likely candidate to enter the council. In the Tower Coup, Sheriam played a key role, pretending to fight, and organizing the escape of many novices and most of the Accepted. She was likely still a junior member, but I think she's one of those BA who knew a lot of the actual plans (most of the rank-and-file BA don't seem to have known much about what truly happened with the Tower Coup).

As for the meetings, I don't debate the fact they could narrow down and puzzle out who the members were based on strength, I just find it fairly obvious RJ would not have overlooked this and maniacal about such details as he was, he no doubt conceived of a trick they used. It would be more profitable to discuss how they possibly did that then debate whether this was a huge mistake by RJ (which seems to be your point).

Brandon pretty much deprived us of whatever "BA resolution" RJ had in mind to offer by failing to continue Alviarin's storyline. For a few books, RJ was starting to reveal internal details about the BA, knowing their downfall was coming and how. At the end, Alviarin was on to Talene and the hunters, and getting close to Egwene. She appeared in a chapter written or outlined by RJ, then nothing. We'll probably have to wait for the Encyclopedia to discover many of the details concerning the organization that RJ could have used in Alviarin's last pre-purge POVs. RJ'S method to start with the core then work outward by adding layers seems to have disserved us with Egwene's storyline, especially with the BA hunt. We got the core more or less intact, without the missing layers (counter POV and so on) RJ would have worked on at a later stage.
This message last edited by DomA on 15/10/2012 at 02:32:36 PM
Reply to message
Misc observations from my latest re-read - 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM 2830 Views
How does LTT know about Far Madding's history? - 14/10/2012 08:29:13 PM 1406 Views
How Stong was Gitara? - 14/10/2012 08:34:43 PM 1312 Views
So so stong. She had incredible stength. - 14/10/2012 09:04:15 PM 1379 Views
Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:22:23 PM 1178 Views
Re: Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:36:19 PM 1006 Views
Not in the mood to deal with you ... Go read the Ages section of 13th Depository - 14/10/2012 09:53:14 PM 1012 Views
Not interested in Linda's private theories. - 15/10/2012 02:29:41 AM 1159 Views
And there's Sorilea... - 15/10/2012 02:53:15 AM 1222 Views
Perhaps, but Bair is in her 80s and can't channel at all - 15/10/2012 03:09:35 AM 973 Views
Problem is... - 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM 1136 Views
Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM 971 Views
Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities! - 15/10/2012 02:58:19 AM 994 Views
Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 937 Views
Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM 1084 Views
Yet Morgase herself states she didn't consider Elaida a friend - 15/10/2012 03:45:45 AM 910 Views
How did Gareth Bryne get to stay Captain General, given his lack of respect to Aes Sedai? - 15/10/2012 04:07:07 AM 995 Views
He was banging the queen - 15/10/2012 04:19:24 AM 953 Views
And what Aes Sedai gave him permission to bang the queen? - 15/10/2012 04:30:42 AM 1199 Views
here ya go - 15/10/2012 04:39:29 AM 1053 Views
There's an awful lot for "not many" - 15/10/2012 05:07:30 AM 984 Views
When did I say I bought into Linda's theories? - 15/10/2012 05:29:27 AM 922 Views
Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM 1036 Views
The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all - 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM 979 Views
IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR - 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM 995 Views
Nope. Every other advisor we've seen has been sent from TV - 15/10/2012 03:50:07 AM 978 Views
Those are not official advisers, those are ambassadors! - 15/10/2012 04:17:51 AM 1032 Views
So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower? - 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM 951 Views
Finally! I was beginning to despair of your literacy! - 15/10/2012 04:34:18 AM 1046 Views
now I am questioning your literacy *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:40:45 AM 668 Views
She didn't "land it". She took the job for herself... - 15/10/2012 04:00:35 AM 979 Views
Actually every advisor we've seen except Elaida has been appointed - 15/10/2012 04:11:39 AM 992 Views
You can bully someone into an act, not a twenty year relationship - 15/10/2012 04:22:16 AM 1108 Views
Not arguing that Morgase had a problem with her - 15/10/2012 04:33:10 AM 925 Views
We know nothing of the sort. - 15/10/2012 05:14:54 AM 921 Views
Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 15/10/2012 05:39:23 AM 1020 Views
Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM 1042 Views
Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM 1002 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 01:01:47 PM 1086 Views
Just to be clear - 17/10/2012 03:58:58 PM 926 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 18/10/2012 01:23:48 AM 1020 Views
Elayne's thoughts about this - 17/10/2012 04:16:38 PM 973 Views
And an answer to the rest of your "points" - 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM 1180 Views
Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy - 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM 980 Views
Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote: - 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM 1063 Views
Okay, but that's still irrelevant to the Oath Rod & its cutoff period or method, as well as lifespan - 15/10/2012 04:54:26 AM 981 Views
To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM 928 Views
Re: To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:27:47 AM 996 Views
Some people look young. - 15/10/2012 05:51:25 AM 890 Views
I never mentioned the OR... - 16/10/2012 01:38:48 AM 998 Views
RJ said Sharina would go back to about middle aged - 16/10/2012 02:23:21 AM 823 Views
And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM 593 Views
Told you so. *NM* - 15/10/2012 05:21:58 AM 695 Views
I think so. - 16/11/2012 11:40:17 AM 1154 Views
Aging - 15/10/2012 06:08:47 PM 995 Views
How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 08:41:35 PM 1015 Views
Re: How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 11:27:12 PM 1112 Views
I couldn't find it - 15/10/2012 12:22:43 AM 1006 Views
Are the Seanchan prophesies false? - 14/10/2012 08:43:55 PM 1163 Views
I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 09:21:43 PM 1215 Views
Not the same thing - 14/10/2012 09:44:43 PM 991 Views
Show me some damn PROOF already!! - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1135 Views
Re: I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 10:15:29 PM 1200 Views
Your argument is based on a faulty premise. - 15/10/2012 08:11:19 PM 853 Views
Of course there is truth... - 14/10/2012 09:42:24 PM 1079 Views
Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:02:40 PM 1034 Views
Re: Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:23:17 PM 1030 Views
Hmmm ...I like it! It is actually very similar to what Nynaeve does - 14/10/2012 10:31:48 PM 1118 Views
How do the Black Ajah not figure out who the others are? - 14/10/2012 08:48:14 PM 1023 Views
Who says they can't? - 14/10/2012 09:23:11 PM 1025 Views
True to a point - 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM 922 Views
Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM 991 Views
Perhaps not. But a woman like Sheriam would stick out - 15/10/2012 03:37:12 AM 941 Views
Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM 997 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC? - 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM 888 Views
Galina isn't young. *NM* - 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM 675 Views
Yes she is - 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM 1034 Views
85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS" - 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM 1006 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM 950 Views
Re: She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 08:10:58 PM 998 Views
I think Linda is correct in this particular instance - 19/10/2012 02:14:23 AM 1067 Views
You mean the SC? - 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM 1041 Views
No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM 1044 Views
Re: No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM 1009 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM 892 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM 954 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM 921 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM 1037 Views
I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 03:01:20 PM 852 Views
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1139 Views
I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 01:20:32 AM 1186 Views
Re: I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM 940 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM 1004 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM 878 Views
Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 06:57:38 PM 1015 Views
Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM 933 Views
Not a good plan, I'll give you that - 18/10/2012 07:37:45 PM 1074 Views
*sigh* - 18/10/2012 08:25:23 PM 1018 Views
*double sigh* - 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM 946 Views
Re: *double sigh* - 19/10/2012 05:48:25 PM 969 Views
Agreed *NM* - 20/10/2012 04:57:18 PM 587 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM 1053 Views
Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail - 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM 1031 Views
Not conclusive? - 18/10/2012 08:49:49 PM 901 Views
Don't put words in my mouth that I never said - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 892 Views
double post *NM* - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 586 Views
Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM 1092 Views
Re: Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 17/10/2012 08:33:27 PM 1122 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well - 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM 896 Views
Just a note about Bair - 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM 1028 Views
I don't see how it could be possible - 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM 901 Views
Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 10:47:55 PM 1174 Views
Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM 1098 Views

Reply to Message