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Re: Thoughts... DomA Send a noteboard - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM
So, Mat is going to Ebou Dar, eh? Wonder what that means for the Tower invasion. Mat will put an end to it if he makes it on time, but will he? Did RJ really plan to have two Seanchan invasions of the Tower in one book? And is Moiraine with Mat, as seems likely, or is she in Merrilor?


IMO, Mat leaves for Ebou Dar after Merrilor.

I guess there's a possibility Mat makes the decision on his own after witnessing the loss of Caemlyn to the Shadow (nice to see this confirmed at last, that's been a pet theory for several books now...) and upon hearing the WT did get attacked by the Seanchan. Mat is a military genius and he's going to see this in military terms (and he's got Moirane and Thom to discuss the politics with him). It's far from impossible he coldly calculates the Light has either lost without an alliance with Tuon, or far more interestingly, that the only way to avoid the Seanchan clashing with the Light, he must convince the Empress to give her Prince of Ravens the command of her armies for Tarmon Gai'don (in a mirror/parallel of Barid Bel Medar's betrayal... Mat would do this to serve the Light, but that wouldn't sit well with Egwene... possibly not even with Rand though that's less sure. I guess this could be the whole "I would never betray you" comment from Mat's PS trip. Not the Shadow... Mat resurfacing at the head of the Seanchan armies when the Seanchan are still enemies. And it's Mat who will have these armies fight the Shadow, not the Light. I can even see one obvious way he might do that.. by demonstrating to the Seanchan generals and Tuon their planned attack on Caemlyn will totally fail, and how he'd lead that battle... knowing all along but not telling it's now the Shadow the Seanchan will face there. That's how his reputation among generals grew originally, and how he found himself playing key strategic roles. Mat can be as crafty as a fox. If he can convince Tuon of his worth, and she's all but figured it out on her own already, he might manage to deceive her.) That would be a way in wich the alliance between the Seanchan and the rest only comes once the LB is well under way and the strength of the Shadow leaves them no other options but to unite. By then, Mat would probably be as popular and revered among the Seanchan soldiers and officers than he is (soon, was?) with the Band... perhaps more than Tuon herself...

An interesting question is whether Mat will have lost the Band of the Red Hand in Caemlyn or not (or rather to what extent). In the TW, their forerunner all perished to buy time for the population of Manetheren to flee the Shadow. I could see Talmanes doing this if he sees they have no hope of winning that battle (interesting too that with the recent merger, he's now one of Elayne's lords... the Band is definitely Elayne's "Severed Hand, not hers". A kind of replay of Manetheren's fall is certainly not impossible. We can't know for sure the Light will hear of the fall of Caemlyn before returning, Elayne may face a losing battle on her return (could she pull another heroic stunt and Travel into the occupied palace, for instance to insure her ter'angreal collection don't fall in the Shadow's hands... there may be developments at Merrilor to justify something like this... and Elayne "can't die".). There's no solid foreshadowing concerning the role of the Band in the LB.

Moiraine? *shrugs*. It depends on too many factors. For all we know, Mat's party returning from Ghenjei might reach Caemlyn after Merrilor (the timeline is so vague, all options are possible.. before, during, after). The timeline is going to massively affect the options for Moiraine's next move. She could stay with Mat until he returns to Rand, she could leave if Rand's location is known. She could also decide to go to Egwene in Tar Valon (where if things went wrong at Merrilor, she might be extremely useful, if only to remind Egwene of what she did herself, what she called "remembering how to control saidar" - a comment which had quite puzzled Egwene at the time).

What second attack on TV are we speaking of?

Jordan got us fooled, convincing most of us the dream of the Seanchan attack and the dream with the Seanchan woman were linked. They were not. In the second dream, the one she interrupted, Egwene is obviously in trouble or unable to see the light at the end of a tunnel, but it doesn't necessarily foreshadows an attack.

In KOD, the Seanchan military planned two attacks. There were two maps. One of them was Tar Valon, we don't know for sure what the second one was, but it's a good bet it was Caemlyn/the BT. I doubt the meant to hit TV a second time, even with Travelling.

And Egwene thinks Rand is mad? Where did this come from?


She doubted his sanity during and after their meeting remember.

Egwene hasn't yet met anyone who could convince her Rand is (now again) quite sane. She didn't know the man she met wasn't the man she's heard all those disturbing reports about.

Min, Cadsuane, Tam, the Borderlands rulers are some of those people who know better. None of these people will meet Egwene before Merrilor, presumably.
This message last edited by DomA on 21/05/2012 at 09:55:13 PM
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aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!) - 21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM 2693 Views
Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM 1203 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:04:29 PM 1127 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM 1034 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM 1235 Views
*nods in agreement* *NM* - 21/05/2012 10:46:48 PM 404 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 11:08:50 PM 1077 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 22/05/2012 01:02:16 AM 1060 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM 1134 Views
Mat and the madness... - 21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM 1077 Views
Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad - 21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM 1100 Views
Not Egwene though... - 21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM 906 Views
Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM 902 Views
Fair enough. - 21/05/2012 11:31:10 PM 919 Views
Agreed that it's an odd blurb - 21/05/2012 11:45:03 PM 960 Views
Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM 973 Views
I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 02:35:25 AM 871 Views
Re: I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 03:41:48 AM 949 Views
Re: Mat and the madness... - 22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM 1024 Views
Rand's dreams... - 22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM 942 Views
She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney - 22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM 1098 Views
I'd like some evidence for this. - 22/05/2012 04:14:27 AM 901 Views
It's still ingrained in the society - 22/05/2012 01:28:05 PM 1004 Views
Moridin and the link - 28/05/2012 01:45:43 AM 834 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 23/05/2012 01:06:10 PM 874 Views
What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn." - 22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM 972 Views
As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM 1044 Views
At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM 889 Views
Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM 928 Views
Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM 910 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM 1040 Views
Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM 1304 Views
Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM 1445 Views
Agreed... - 26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM 1003 Views
I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends - 26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM 881 Views
Re: Agreed... - 27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM 948 Views
I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM 953 Views
Re: I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 07:10:08 PM 955 Views
I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM 962 Views
Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM 887 Views
That makes no sense - 28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM 931 Views
Taringail was Laman's heir... - 28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM 875 Views
You are answering the wrong question - 29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM 864 Views
No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it. - 29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM 915 Views
Yet not one of these things actually happened - 29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM 904 Views
You're being absurd... - 30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM 858 Views
Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then - 30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM 829 Views
- 30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM 828 Views
Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne? - 30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM 983 Views
We don't fully know... - 30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM 738 Views
You just flipped your last statement - 30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM 974 Views
You seem extremely confused... - 30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM 900 Views
Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM 868 Views
Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM 1034 Views
I am not contesting the information we have - 30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM 970 Views
You're impossible... - 30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM 896 Views
Wow ... Not sure what is bringing out the aggression - 30/05/2012 10:19:18 PM 819 Views
*sigh* - 30/05/2012 11:45:28 PM 885 Views
DomA swore *NM* - 31/05/2012 03:39:24 PM 990 Views
Re: That makes no sense - 29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM 1033 Views
Only one other thing... - 29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM 766 Views
Re: Only one other thing... - 30/05/2012 12:32:58 PM 841 Views
Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP - 30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM 879 Views
Bryne was First Prince Regent. - 30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM 852 Views
Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 06:22:52 AM 1039 Views
Re: Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 04:38:29 PM 899 Views
No he wasn't - 30/05/2012 04:16:02 PM 834 Views
No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM 795 Views
Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM 876 Views
Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM 842 Views
Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM 990 Views
I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage - 28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM 953 Views
He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon. - 25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM 1180 Views
Soon might be relative... - 27/05/2012 02:08:53 AM 1373 Views
Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 09:03:57 AM 1226 Views
Re: Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 05:54:57 PM 961 Views
Right, then; here we go.... - 03/06/2012 08:45:20 AM 835 Views
Re: As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 23/05/2012 05:28:17 PM 890 Views
I think I read a fan fiction like that once *NM* - 23/05/2012 08:04:42 PM 470 Views

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