Foretellings have yet to happen out of order, or to refer to many different and totally unconnected things at once.
We just have to look at the KC prophecies for this. Elements of a foretelling are related to one another, and so far they've always been chronological. KC, Lydia's, Elaida's etc. They're all the same.
(Side note: it seems Elaida's foretellings could all be pretty much related to the same "event": the world coming to its blackest and tears being wept, and Rand standing in the middle of it all, the Royal Line of Andor being key to the LB, the BT events... It might be Elaida, who is a weak foreteller, might have ever foretold only about a fairly limited timeline...)
Elaida's last foretelling has just started to be fulfilled (and I'm starting to find it quite interesting that Jordan kind of made a point that Mesaana knows this foretelling to the word because Alviarin reported it to her, and Alviarin memorizes the exact words... and Mesaana won't have forgotten.. and she said this wouldn't come clear anyway until it has passed... but the problem is, the first part would now be crystal clear to Mesaana, and she can now puzzle out more of what is about come, and use it... Quite an interesting find this, I think ):
The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever.
This has taken place in TGS, mere days before Rand and Egwene meet... it shouldn't be a surprise this comes right next in their storyline (I was sure this was coming soon in their story line, I just didn't expect Rand and Egwene to appear right at the beginning of TOM, for timeline issues):
Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.
She has a big issue over which to become really angry with Rand at this juncture, if she asks him if he knows what is delaying her envoys to his people, sent at his invitation, and why they no longer communicate with her (and it doesn't help that this is becoming a pattern with Rand as far as Egwene can judge... when AS are sent his way - coming in peace or hostile, they vanish without a word... and they tend to reappear mysteriously "serving" Rand after a while...), and he admits to her he may just have made a terrible mistake to send her people to Taim... It's a solid mess Rand made there. Will he decide it's time to visit Taim at the BT and see with his own eyes next, and be told by Taim no envoys from the WT ever came, and some BS about Logain? Possibly.
Will Mesaana, having puzzled out what the Foretelling is about, interfere with what comes next? Quite possibly... I would certainly forewarn Taim or plan a way to use this to her advantage if I had seen the first part of the foretelling ruining my plans...
That the BT is the issue Rand and Egwene will discuss in their first meeting is foretold by what comes next in the foretelling, which is forcibly related, because it's part of the same prophecy:
The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds.
So, Rand and Egwene's conversation will become heated, but one way or another it will lead to the BT being rented in blood and fire, and sisters walking its ground.
Foretelling aren't a bit here, a bit there. They form wholes.
The "sisters walking its ground" aren't any sisters nor do they walk the premises at any time. This is the ending. The ground they walk will be what's left of the BT once it's been rent in blood and fire. Razed to the ground, quite possibly.
This foretelling appears to be completely unconnected to the meeting of Egwene and Rand, with Nynaeve present and a Seanchan woman. That, IMO, is for much, much later (probably part of the "same" red herring that lead us to believe the Seanchan attack on the Tower would result in an alliance between Egwene and a Seanchan... which we know now was totally unrelated...)
It sounds to me more and more likely Elaida's foretelling will finish to be fulfilled in TOM around the same time Nicola's foretelling will start being fulfilled (again... chronologically):
The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.
Will most likely happen at the end of TOM, after the big battle that starts TG, and from there spark many, many more battles to come before it's over:
The great battle done, but the world not done with battle.
Then, it appears the Seanchan conflict won't be resolved just yet:
The land divided by the return
However, the major alliance that reunites the Aes Sedai male and female as TG starts very likely ends TOM, much like the reunification of the Tower ended TGS:
and the guardians balance the servants.
As for this:
The future teeters on the edge of a blade.
I think this line heralds the beginning of the Last Battle, and probably foretells that the Light won't exactly have a great victory in that "great battle". Not only the world form there is in serious jeopardy, but this appears to be a reference to the fact the LB has come, and now everything hangs on Three as One and a Blade of Light. This refers to the Callandor (Rand + two women) (or as prefer myself: Justice, Rand, Mat and Perrin) prophecy. One of the "endgame" prophecies as I started calling it a while ago.
We might have quite a bit of the picture in this:
- Rand and Egwene meet early (on their timeline, anyway). She is angry. It has to do with the BT.
- The BT will face blood and fire (battle). Sisters will walk the ground after the battle.
- Rand will be "he who is dead yet lives" at the climax of the book, after a "great battle"
- The Seanchan conflict won't be solved, in fact the division might deepen, and it becomes really quite important.
- The Last Battle starts, the fate of the world is in jeopardy, and a final reminder that at the end all will hang on the edge of a certain blade...
(I guess Cadsuane might bring Callandor back to Rand when they next meet, and this might happen at the end of TOM. I still think this is a "red herring" blade and the blade Rand has to use at the LB will be Justice, but we'll see). If something bad is to happen to Callandor (fall in the hands of Demandred - that'd be a good plot twist that... or be destroyed as a red herring that all is lost as TG starts... the end of TOM would be a good time for this to happen...).
Hmmm... I can't recall what happens to Excalibur when Arthur died at the Battle of Camlann...
We just have to look at the KC prophecies for this. Elements of a foretelling are related to one another, and so far they've always been chronological. KC, Lydia's, Elaida's etc. They're all the same.
(Side note: it seems Elaida's foretellings could all be pretty much related to the same "event": the world coming to its blackest and tears being wept, and Rand standing in the middle of it all, the Royal Line of Andor being key to the LB, the BT events... It might be Elaida, who is a weak foreteller, might have ever foretold only about a fairly limited timeline...)
Elaida's last foretelling has just started to be fulfilled (and I'm starting to find it quite interesting that Jordan kind of made a point that Mesaana knows this foretelling to the word because Alviarin reported it to her, and Alviarin memorizes the exact words... and Mesaana won't have forgotten.. and she said this wouldn't come clear anyway until it has passed... but the problem is, the first part would now be crystal clear to Mesaana, and she can now puzzle out more of what is about come, and use it... Quite an interesting find this, I think ):
The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever.
This has taken place in TGS, mere days before Rand and Egwene meet... it shouldn't be a surprise this comes right next in their storyline (I was sure this was coming soon in their story line, I just didn't expect Rand and Egwene to appear right at the beginning of TOM, for timeline issues):
Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.
She has a big issue over which to become really angry with Rand at this juncture, if she asks him if he knows what is delaying her envoys to his people, sent at his invitation, and why they no longer communicate with her (and it doesn't help that this is becoming a pattern with Rand as far as Egwene can judge... when AS are sent his way - coming in peace or hostile, they vanish without a word... and they tend to reappear mysteriously "serving" Rand after a while...), and he admits to her he may just have made a terrible mistake to send her people to Taim... It's a solid mess Rand made there. Will he decide it's time to visit Taim at the BT and see with his own eyes next, and be told by Taim no envoys from the WT ever came, and some BS about Logain? Possibly.
Will Mesaana, having puzzled out what the Foretelling is about, interfere with what comes next? Quite possibly... I would certainly forewarn Taim or plan a way to use this to her advantage if I had seen the first part of the foretelling ruining my plans...
That the BT is the issue Rand and Egwene will discuss in their first meeting is foretold by what comes next in the foretelling, which is forcibly related, because it's part of the same prophecy:
The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds.
So, Rand and Egwene's conversation will become heated, but one way or another it will lead to the BT being rented in blood and fire, and sisters walking its ground.
Foretelling aren't a bit here, a bit there. They form wholes.
The "sisters walking its ground" aren't any sisters nor do they walk the premises at any time. This is the ending. The ground they walk will be what's left of the BT once it's been rent in blood and fire. Razed to the ground, quite possibly.
This foretelling appears to be completely unconnected to the meeting of Egwene and Rand, with Nynaeve present and a Seanchan woman. That, IMO, is for much, much later (probably part of the "same" red herring that lead us to believe the Seanchan attack on the Tower would result in an alliance between Egwene and a Seanchan... which we know now was totally unrelated...)
It sounds to me more and more likely Elaida's foretelling will finish to be fulfilled in TOM around the same time Nicola's foretelling will start being fulfilled (again... chronologically):
The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.
Will most likely happen at the end of TOM, after the big battle that starts TG, and from there spark many, many more battles to come before it's over:
The great battle done, but the world not done with battle.
Then, it appears the Seanchan conflict won't be resolved just yet:
The land divided by the return
However, the major alliance that reunites the Aes Sedai male and female as TG starts very likely ends TOM, much like the reunification of the Tower ended TGS:
and the guardians balance the servants.
As for this:
The future teeters on the edge of a blade.
I think this line heralds the beginning of the Last Battle, and probably foretells that the Light won't exactly have a great victory in that "great battle". Not only the world form there is in serious jeopardy, but this appears to be a reference to the fact the LB has come, and now everything hangs on Three as One and a Blade of Light. This refers to the Callandor (Rand + two women) (or as prefer myself: Justice, Rand, Mat and Perrin) prophecy. One of the "endgame" prophecies as I started calling it a while ago.
We might have quite a bit of the picture in this:
- Rand and Egwene meet early (on their timeline, anyway). She is angry. It has to do with the BT.
- The BT will face blood and fire (battle). Sisters will walk the ground after the battle.
- Rand will be "he who is dead yet lives" at the climax of the book, after a "great battle"
- The Seanchan conflict won't be solved, in fact the division might deepen, and it becomes really quite important.
- The Last Battle starts, the fate of the world is in jeopardy, and a final reminder that at the end all will hang on the edge of a certain blade...
(I guess Cadsuane might bring Callandor back to Rand when they next meet, and this might happen at the end of TOM. I still think this is a "red herring" blade and the blade Rand has to use at the LB will be Justice, but we'll see). If something bad is to happen to Callandor (fall in the hands of Demandred - that'd be a good plot twist that... or be destroyed as a red herring that all is lost as TG starts... the end of TOM would be a good time for this to happen...).
Hmmm... I can't recall what happens to Excalibur when Arthur died at the Battle of Camlann...
This message last edited by DomA on 28/09/2010 at 02:36:52 AM
Jason's review... Looks like DomA was right (Review is now removed)
25/09/2010 05:40:18 AM
- 3412 Views
Re: Jason's review (spoilerish thoughts from me, so BEWARE!). Looks like DomA was right
25/09/2010 06:00:46 AM
- 1238 Views
Everyone seems to think Rand will talk to Egwene, but a male channeler also makes sense
25/09/2010 10:44:18 PM
- 983 Views
No Elayne hopefully, but again it looks like Egwene has everything fall in her lap
25/09/2010 08:10:54 AM
- 1154 Views
No Elayne hopefully, but again it looks like Egwene has everything fall in her lap
25/09/2010 08:11:37 AM
- 878 Views
Perrin will probably gather the wolves...
25/09/2010 09:57:06 AM
- 1061 Views
this "we like it because it's family" stuff is worrisome
25/09/2010 10:18:22 AM
- 1031 Views
After his COT review, a less then gushing review isn't great
25/09/2010 11:42:39 AM
- 976 Views
But he is specifically trying to avoid being overly fanboyish BECAUSE of that CoT review. *NM*
27/09/2010 04:19:21 PM
- 495 Views
Damn, his COT review was infinitely more enthusiastic. What could it all mean? *NM*
25/09/2010 01:06:00 PM
- 511 Views
But his CoT review was also more enthusiastic than his KoD and TGS reviews *NM*
25/09/2010 01:07:15 PM
- 516 Views
Hmm, interesting point. Could a guilty conscience be setting in? *NM*
25/09/2010 01:26:30 PM
- 472 Views
I'm guessing Olver will sacrifice his Snakes and Foxes game his father made for him *NM*
25/09/2010 06:09:10 PM
- 649 Views
I haven't read the review but...
25/09/2010 07:22:48 PM
- 1493 Views
That's not what I meant...
25/09/2010 08:25:42 PM
- 1091 Views
It's odd, I didn't see any reference to Rand descending from DM in his review.
25/09/2010 08:39:33 PM
- 923 Views
It was the very last line...
25/09/2010 08:55:49 PM
- 1031 Views
Re: It was the very last line...
25/09/2010 09:03:14 PM
- 915 Views
Re: It was the very last line...
25/09/2010 10:09:58 PM
- 1161 Views
I blame JordanCon too.
26/09/2010 02:17:50 AM
- 1053 Views
Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam,
26/09/2010 10:04:40 PM
- 970 Views
Regarding Brandon's messing up of the timelines...
25/09/2010 11:34:06 PM
- 1059 Views
To me it's two different things
26/09/2010 01:48:13 AM
- 1148 Views
I remember the timeline was discussed much at TL prior to TGS release.
26/09/2010 03:04:24 AM
- 982 Views
Re: I remember the timeline was discussed much at TL prior to TGS release.
26/09/2010 08:31:00 PM
- 1070 Views
KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed'
26/09/2010 10:27:04 AM
- 953 Views
The review is back up...
27/09/2010 01:59:50 AM
- 931 Views
It wasn't quite identical... It was missing the line about Rand walking down from DM
27/09/2010 06:42:47 AM
- 929 Views
The line about Rand wasn't there when I read the review Saturday morning either. *NM*
27/09/2010 01:57:00 PM
- 423 Views
It was...
27/09/2010 04:22:24 PM
- 782 Views
I must have missed it then. It does fit with Tor's not releasing Chapter 1 early. *NM*
27/09/2010 05:06:36 PM
- 432 Views
What do you mean?
27/09/2010 11:33:15 PM
- 840 Views
I read somewhere that they'd release two different chapters this time. Could well be wrong though. *NM*
28/09/2010 02:15:28 AM
- 450 Views
Olver
27/09/2010 11:34:40 AM
- 1079 Views
doubt he'll die. Jason's review is too much of a spoiler if he actually dies *NM*
27/09/2010 11:46:16 AM
- 474 Views
One problem with the idea of a Rand-Egwene meeting in Chapter 1 beyond timeline issues
27/09/2010 10:29:15 PM
- 863 Views
Not true...
28/09/2010 01:00:40 AM
- 851 Views
Good call. I assumed, and still do, that the two events are one in the same.
28/09/2010 01:10:13 AM
- 927 Views
Not true indeed... and....
28/09/2010 02:24:00 AM
- 1088 Views