Not true indeed... and.... - Edit 2
Before modification by DomA at 28/09/2010 02:36:02 AM
Foretellings have yet to happen out of order, or to refer to many different and totally unconnected things at once.
We just have to look at the KC prophecies for this. Elements of a foretelling are related to one another, and so far they've always been chronological. KC, Lydia's, Elaida's etc. They're all the same.
(Side note: it seems Elaida's foretellings could all be pretty much related to the same "event": the world coming to its blackest and tears being wept, and Rand standing in the middle of it all, the Royal Line of Andor being key to the LB, the BT events... It might be Elaida, who is a weak foreteller, might have ever foretold only about a fairly limited timeline...)
Elaida's last foretelling has just started to be fulfilled (and I'm starting to find it quite interesting that Jordan kind of made a point that Mesaana knows this foretelling to the word because Alviarin reported it to her, and Alviarin memorizes the exact words... and Mesaana won't have forgotten.. and she said this wouldn't come clear anyway until it has passed... but the problem is, the first part would now be crystal clear to Mesaana, and she can now puzzle out more of what is about come, and use it... Quite an interesting find this, I think
):
The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever.
This has taken place in TGS, mere days before Rand and Egwene meet... it shouldn't be a surprise this comes right next in their storyline (I was sure this was coming soon in their story line, I just didn't expect Rand and Egwene to appear right at the beginning of TOM, for timeline issues):
Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.
She has a big issue over which to become really angry with Rand at this juncture, if she asks him if he knows what is delaying her envoys to his people, sent at his invitation, and why they no longer communicate with her (and it doesn't help that this is becoming a pattern with Rand as far as Egwene can judge... when AS are sent his way - coming in peace or hostile, they vanish without a word... and they tend to reappear mysteriously "serving" Rand after a while...), and he admits to her he may just have made a terrible mistake to send her people to Taim... It's a solid mess Rand made there. Will he decide it's time to visit Taim at the BT and see with his own eyes next, and be told by Taim no envoys from the WT ever came, and some BS about Logain? Possibly.
Will Mesaana, having puzzled out what the Foretelling is about, interfere with what comes next? Quite possibly... I would certainly forewarn Taim or plan a way to use this to her advantage if I had seen the first part of the foretelling ruining my plans...
That the BT is the issue Rand and Egwene will discuss in their first meeting is foretold by what comes next in the foretelling, which is forcibly related, because it's part of the same prophecy:
The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds.
So, Rand and Egwene's conversation will become heated, but one way or another it will lead to the BT being rented in blood and fire, and sisters walking its ground.
Foretelling aren't a bit here, a bit there. They form wholes.
The "sisters walking its ground" aren't any sisters nor do they walk the premises at any time. This is the ending. The ground they walk will be what's left of the BT once it's been rent in blood and fire. Razed to the ground, quite possibly.
This foretelling appears to be completely unconnected to the meeting of Egwene and Rand, with Nynaeve present and a Seanchan woman. That, IMO, is for much, much later (probably part of the "same" red herring that lead us to believe the Seanchan attack on the Tower would result in an alliance between Egwene and a Seanchan... which we know now was totally unrelated...)
It sounds to me more and more likely Elaida's foretelling will finish to be fulfilled in TOM around the same time Nicola's foretelling will start being fulfilled (again... chronologically):
The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.
Will most likely happen at the end of TOM, after the big battle that starts TG, and from there spark many, many more battles to come before it's over:
The great battle done, but the world not done with battle.
Then, it appears the Seanchan conflict won't be resolved at all....
The land divided by the return<"i>
However, the major alliance that reunite the Aes Sedai very likely ends TOM like the reunification of the Tower ended TGS:
and the guardians balance the servants. <"i>
As for this:
The future teeters on the edge of a blade.
I think this line heralds the beginning of the Last Battle, and probably foretell that the Light won't exactly have a great victory in the "great battle". Not only the world form there is in serious jeopardy, but this appears to be a reference to the fact the LB has come, and now everything hangs on Three as One and a Blade of Light. This refers to the Callandor (Rand + two women) (or as prefer myself: Justice, Rand, Mat and Perrin) prophecy. One of the "endgame" prophecies as I started calling it a while ago.
We might have quite a bit of the picture in this:
- Rand and Egwene meet early (on their timeline, anyway). She is angry. It has to do with the BT.
- The BT will face blood and fire (battle). Sisters will walk the ground after the battle.
- Rand will be "he who is dead yet lives" at the climax of the book, after a "great battle"
- The Seanchan conflict won't be solved, in fact the division might deepen, and it becomes really quite important.
- The Last Battle starts, the fate of the world is in jeopardy, and a final reminder that at the end all will hang on the edge of a certain blade...
(I guess Cadsuane might bring Callandor back to Rand when they next meet, and this might happen at the end of TOM. I still think this is a "red herring" blade and the blade Rand has to use at the LB will be Justice, but we'll see). If something bad is to happen to Callandor (fall in the hands of Demandred - that'd be a good plot twist that... or be destroyed as a red herring that all is lost as TG starts... the end of TOM would be a good time for this to happen...).
Hmmm... I can't recall what happens to Excalibur when Arthur died at the Battle of Camlann...
We just have to look at the KC prophecies for this. Elements of a foretelling are related to one another, and so far they've always been chronological. KC, Lydia's, Elaida's etc. They're all the same.
(Side note: it seems Elaida's foretellings could all be pretty much related to the same "event": the world coming to its blackest and tears being wept, and Rand standing in the middle of it all, the Royal Line of Andor being key to the LB, the BT events... It might be Elaida, who is a weak foreteller, might have ever foretold only about a fairly limited timeline...)
Elaida's last foretelling has just started to be fulfilled (and I'm starting to find it quite interesting that Jordan kind of made a point that Mesaana knows this foretelling to the word because Alviarin reported it to her, and Alviarin memorizes the exact words... and Mesaana won't have forgotten.. and she said this wouldn't come clear anyway until it has passed... but the problem is, the first part would now be crystal clear to Mesaana, and she can now puzzle out more of what is about come, and use it... Quite an interesting find this, I think
):The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever.
This has taken place in TGS, mere days before Rand and Egwene meet... it shouldn't be a surprise this comes right next in their storyline (I was sure this was coming soon in their story line, I just didn't expect Rand and Egwene to appear right at the beginning of TOM, for timeline issues):
Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.
She has a big issue over which to become really angry with Rand at this juncture, if she asks him if he knows what is delaying her envoys to his people, sent at his invitation, and why they no longer communicate with her (and it doesn't help that this is becoming a pattern with Rand as far as Egwene can judge... when AS are sent his way - coming in peace or hostile, they vanish without a word... and they tend to reappear mysteriously "serving" Rand after a while...), and he admits to her he may just have made a terrible mistake to send her people to Taim... It's a solid mess Rand made there. Will he decide it's time to visit Taim at the BT and see with his own eyes next, and be told by Taim no envoys from the WT ever came, and some BS about Logain? Possibly.
Will Mesaana, having puzzled out what the Foretelling is about, interfere with what comes next? Quite possibly... I would certainly forewarn Taim or plan a way to use this to her advantage if I had seen the first part of the foretelling ruining my plans...
That the BT is the issue Rand and Egwene will discuss in their first meeting is foretold by what comes next in the foretelling, which is forcibly related, because it's part of the same prophecy:
The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds.
So, Rand and Egwene's conversation will become heated, but one way or another it will lead to the BT being rented in blood and fire, and sisters walking its ground.
Foretelling aren't a bit here, a bit there. They form wholes.
The "sisters walking its ground" aren't any sisters nor do they walk the premises at any time. This is the ending. The ground they walk will be what's left of the BT once it's been rent in blood and fire. Razed to the ground, quite possibly.
This foretelling appears to be completely unconnected to the meeting of Egwene and Rand, with Nynaeve present and a Seanchan woman. That, IMO, is for much, much later (probably part of the "same" red herring that lead us to believe the Seanchan attack on the Tower would result in an alliance between Egwene and a Seanchan... which we know now was totally unrelated...)
It sounds to me more and more likely Elaida's foretelling will finish to be fulfilled in TOM around the same time Nicola's foretelling will start being fulfilled (again... chronologically):
The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.
Will most likely happen at the end of TOM, after the big battle that starts TG, and from there spark many, many more battles to come before it's over:
The great battle done, but the world not done with battle.
Then, it appears the Seanchan conflict won't be resolved at all....
The land divided by the return<"i>
However, the major alliance that reunite the Aes Sedai very likely ends TOM like the reunification of the Tower ended TGS:
and the guardians balance the servants. <"i>
As for this:
The future teeters on the edge of a blade.
I think this line heralds the beginning of the Last Battle, and probably foretell that the Light won't exactly have a great victory in the "great battle". Not only the world form there is in serious jeopardy, but this appears to be a reference to the fact the LB has come, and now everything hangs on Three as One and a Blade of Light. This refers to the Callandor (Rand + two women) (or as prefer myself: Justice, Rand, Mat and Perrin) prophecy. One of the "endgame" prophecies as I started calling it a while ago.
We might have quite a bit of the picture in this:
- Rand and Egwene meet early (on their timeline, anyway). She is angry. It has to do with the BT.
- The BT will face blood and fire (battle). Sisters will walk the ground after the battle.
- Rand will be "he who is dead yet lives" at the climax of the book, after a "great battle"
- The Seanchan conflict won't be solved, in fact the division might deepen, and it becomes really quite important.
- The Last Battle starts, the fate of the world is in jeopardy, and a final reminder that at the end all will hang on the edge of a certain blade...
(I guess Cadsuane might bring Callandor back to Rand when they next meet, and this might happen at the end of TOM. I still think this is a "red herring" blade and the blade Rand has to use at the LB will be Justice, but we'll see). If something bad is to happen to Callandor (fall in the hands of Demandred - that'd be a good plot twist that... or be destroyed as a red herring that all is lost as TG starts... the end of TOM would be a good time for this to happen...).
Hmmm... I can't recall what happens to Excalibur when Arthur died at the Battle of Camlann...