Meaning that you place them much higher than I do.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
First off, as you so proudly proclaimed in the other post, the AS strength range is pretty significant. Daigian at 16 would make Moiraine a 48 with an "average sister" a 32, a "weak sister" around 20 and a "strong sister" around 40.
We also know from Cadsuane that typically the weakest sisters end up holding shields (just like all the grunt work). Odds are Rand broke through a shield of no more than 60 power. And as previously stated men have levels of strength above women, meaning Rand would not be merely 80 strength on a female chart he'd be more like 120 at this point. Which fits it the shield of 4 = 80 and you must have about 65% of the strength for an opposite sex shield to hold. He'd be unable to break the 80, but as soon as it dropped he crushed the shield.
Also explains how Semirhage (lets say a 92) was held by 16+40+32 and it being considered "taking precaution". Nynaeve (let's say 95) was held, barely, by 32+32 ... all it took her to break it was a distraction from Lan.
In the end this is an area where raw strength plays a significant role and we can't forget that Rand would be well above the 100 female max.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount
10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM
- 2286 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking!
10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
- 1212 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength...
10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM
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See the question again man!
10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM
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That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman...
10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM
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I need to re-evaluate nothing!
10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
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Think logically for a moment...
10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM
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Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine?
10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Aviendha did in FoH...
10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM
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Nope!
10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM
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Your quotes are faulty
10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM
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In what sense though?
10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM
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Forkroot
10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM
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Again... later that night?
10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM
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What do you mean?
10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM
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See below...
10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM
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Re: See below...
10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM
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I just did.
10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM
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Well then we disagree
10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM
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BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT!
10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM
- 870 Views
Ah, you mean later later ...
10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM
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Forkroot wears off, you know?
10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM
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Yes I know
10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM
- 1071 Views
I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM
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Are you sure you're feeling fine?
10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
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RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe?
10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM
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It wasn't BS... both were RJ!
10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM
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In that case, there is no problem...
10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM
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But that isn't what the text says...
10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM
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How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then?
10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM
- 1078 Views
Yeah, both were RJ
10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
- 951 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate.
10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM
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10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
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Really?
10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM
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Re: Really?
10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM
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Here's what is clear:
10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM
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IMO it's easy to disprove
10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM
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Dude...
10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM
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At least we agree on one thing
10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM
- 947 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3
13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM
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Have to agree with Sidious on this point
11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM
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The rate forkroot wears off?
16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM
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You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all!
16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM
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Maria's other answer adresses this...
10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM
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Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did.
10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM
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You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off...
10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM
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But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield...
10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM
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Easy...
10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM
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What has that got to do with it?
10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM
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Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half..
10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM
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Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who...
10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM
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I can agree with that.
10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM
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...
10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM
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Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM
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Re: Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM
- 800 Views
Good point...
10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
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Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list...
10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM
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I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense
10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM
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Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM
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Re: Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM
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DUDE!
10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM
- 853 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily...
10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM
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That's fairly simple, actually...
10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM
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Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai...
10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM
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Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM*
10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM
- 495 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
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You are making a couple of mistakes
13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM
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No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages...
10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM
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Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them...
10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM
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Very poor evidence
10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM
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no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM
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The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined...
11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM
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Here's the problem with that...
11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM
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I think you are misreading her.
10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM
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Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM*
10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM
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Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution.
10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM
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Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals.
11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM
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I don't agree
10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM
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BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you.
10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM
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Hmm...
10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM
- 789 Views
Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM
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Re: Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM
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Without contradicting the latter...
10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM
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Ah well
10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM
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Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified!
10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM
- 1080 Views
Nope...
10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM
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Who said Cadsuane was 50?
10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM
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So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55?
10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM
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She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys!
10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM
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Amys can't hold her properly
10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM
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What about later that night?
10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM
- 816 Views
No she didn't
16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM
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No she didn't what?
16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM
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Re: No she didn't what?
17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM
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Why do you think it's a linear scale?
16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM
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That's simple...
16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM
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Re: That's simple...
16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM
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Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it.
16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM
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Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body.
10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM
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The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new
10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM
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RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before
10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM
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It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing
11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM
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Just to make things clear on the strength thing...
10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM
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It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second...
10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM
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That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM
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Re: That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM
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Then why...
10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM
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Re: Then why...
10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM
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God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM
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Re: God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM
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It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM
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Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM
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That's a mathematical impossibility...
10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM
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Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations.
11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM
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You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM
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I agree
11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM
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Re: I agree
12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM
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BS didn't answer with "Read and find out"
12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM
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We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM*
13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM
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Actually she said "No"...
*NM*
13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
- 607 Views

I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question.
13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM
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Eh, practically useless.
14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM
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I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM*
15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM
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Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though.
17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM
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