Meaning that you place them much higher than I do.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
So, if you are correct, then Rand probably broke through a shield that is what, 40+40+40=120 in strength?
Or even if you go lower, and it is 30+30+30=90, that still means that Rand was roughly equal in strength to the combined strength of the 3 sisters who were shielding him. Right?
So how is this possible, if a much weaker channeler can keep a stronger channeler shielded, if the victim is already cut off from the Source?
Your argument is that Rand was able to do this because it is more difficult to shield someone of the opposite sex.
Now that's fine, as long as you hold the same argument if the roles are reversed, and it is now a man trying to hold a woman shielded. Again, it should be more difficult for the man to keep them shielded since they are of the opposite sex.
So, if Rand was at 80 when he shielded Egwene and Elayne, and Egwene was at 60 with Elayne at 30, then the two women combined were actually STRONGER than his total strength when he shielded them.
And he was holding both shields at the same time to boot.
And this despite the fact that they are of the opposite sex, and therefore more difficult for him to shield.
So, to summarize, Rand - of strength 90 in LoC, is able to break a shield that exceeds his own strength, but Egwene and Elayne are not able to break shields that clearly have to be weaker than their own combined strength in tSR. This despite Rand holding multiple weaves simultaneously -which would further sap his strength.
For example, let's say Rand at strength 80 is able to weave two shields of 40 and 30 strength respectively. One for Egwene and one for Elayne.
Now, that would mean that Egwene cannot break through Rand's shield of 40, despite being of strength 60 herself at the time, but Rand was able to break through a shield of 90-120 in LoC, despite it matching or exceeding his own strength.
Clearly, Rand's strength advantage is greater than you think it is.
First off, as you so proudly proclaimed in the other post, the AS strength range is pretty significant. Daigian at 16 would make Moiraine a 48 with an "average sister" a 32, a "weak sister" around 20 and a "strong sister" around 40.
We also know from Cadsuane that typically the weakest sisters end up holding shields (just like all the grunt work). Odds are Rand broke through a shield of no more than 60 power. And as previously stated men have levels of strength above women, meaning Rand would not be merely 80 strength on a female chart he'd be more like 120 at this point. Which fits it the shield of 4 = 80 and you must have about 65% of the strength for an opposite sex shield to hold. He'd be unable to break the 80, but as soon as it dropped he crushed the shield.
Also explains how Semirhage (lets say a 92) was held by 16+40+32 and it being considered "taking precaution". Nynaeve (let's say 95) was held, barely, by 32+32 ... all it took her to break it was a distraction from Lan.
In the end this is an area where raw strength plays a significant role and we can't forget that Rand would be well above the 100 female max.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount
10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM
- 2203 Views
Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking!
10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
- 1128 Views
No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength...
10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM
- 1004 Views
See the question again man!
10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM
- 964 Views
That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman...
10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM
- 1042 Views
I need to re-evaluate nothing!
10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
- 978 Views
Think logically for a moment...
10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM
- 822 Views
Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine?
10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM
- 1067 Views
Aviendha did in FoH...
10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM
- 823 Views
Nope!
10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM
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Your quotes are faulty
10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM
- 997 Views
In what sense though?
10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM
- 988 Views
Forkroot
10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM
- 924 Views
Again... later that night?
10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM
- 769 Views
What do you mean?
10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM
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See below...
10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM
- 888 Views
Re: See below...
10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM
- 934 Views
I just did.
10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM
- 751 Views
Well then we disagree
10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM
- 951 Views
BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT!
10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM
- 802 Views
Ah, you mean later later ...
10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM
- 896 Views
Forkroot wears off, you know?
10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM
- 995 Views
Yes I know
10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM
- 986 Views
I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM
- 965 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM
- 901 Views
Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM
- 928 Views
Are you sure you're feeling fine?
10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
- 996 Views
RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe?
10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM
- 814 Views
It wasn't BS... both were RJ!
10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM
- 892 Views
In that case, there is no problem...
10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM
- 862 Views
But that isn't what the text says...
10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM
- 772 Views
How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then?
10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM
- 974 Views
Yeah, both were RJ
10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
- 880 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate.
10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM
- 979 Views
10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
- 950 Views
Really?
10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM
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Re: Really?
10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM
- 934 Views
Here's what is clear:
10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM
- 867 Views
IMO it's easy to disprove
10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM
- 856 Views
Dude...
10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM
- 775 Views
At least we agree on one thing
10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM
- 867 Views
yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3
13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM
- 706 Views
Have to agree with Sidious on this point
11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM
- 808 Views
The rate forkroot wears off?
16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM
- 910 Views
You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all!
16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM
- 828 Views
Maria's other answer adresses this...
10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM
- 705 Views
Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did.
10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM
- 838 Views
You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off...
10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM
- 804 Views
But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield...
10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM
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Easy...
10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM
- 784 Views
What has that got to do with it?
10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM
- 968 Views
Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half..
10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM
- 872 Views
Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who...
10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM
- 1016 Views
I can agree with that.
10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM
- 773 Views
...
10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM
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Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM
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Re: Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM
- 726 Views
Good point...
10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
- 945 Views
Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list...
10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM
- 812 Views
I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense
10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM
- 746 Views
Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM
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Re: Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM
- 760 Views
DUDE!
10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM
- 788 Views
Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily...
10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM
- 1349 Views
That's fairly simple, actually...
10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM
- 984 Views
Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai...
10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM
- 960 Views
Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM*
10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM
- 471 Views
Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
- 1011 Views
You are making a couple of mistakes
13/06/2010 02:28:41 PM
- 879 Views
No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages...
10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM
- 804 Views
Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them...
10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM
- 821 Views
Very poor evidence
10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM
- 926 Views
no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM
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The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined...
11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM
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Here's the problem with that...
11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM
- 786 Views
I think you are misreading her.
10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM
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Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM*
10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM
- 507 Views
Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution.
10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM
- 968 Views
Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals.
11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM
- 813 Views
I don't agree
10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM
- 799 Views
BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you.
10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM
- 904 Views
Hmm...
10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM
- 717 Views
Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM
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Re: Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM
- 886 Views
Without contradicting the latter...
10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM
- 788 Views
Ah well
10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM
- 753 Views
Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified!
10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM
- 1006 Views
Nope...
10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM
- 859 Views
Who said Cadsuane was 50?
10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM
- 891 Views
So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55?
10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM
- 761 Views
She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys!
10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM
- 703 Views
Amys can't hold her properly
10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM
- 731 Views
What about later that night?
10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM
- 723 Views
No she didn't
16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM
- 857 Views
No she didn't what?
16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM
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Re: No she didn't what?
17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM
- 744 Views
Why do you think it's a linear scale?
16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM
- 876 Views
That's simple...
16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM
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Re: That's simple...
16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM
- 777 Views
Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it.
16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM
- 967 Views
Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body.
10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM
- 809 Views
The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new
10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM
- 947 Views
RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before
10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM
- 1025 Views
It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing
11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM
- 778 Views
Just to make things clear on the strength thing...
10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM
- 1057 Views
It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second...
10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM
- 783 Views
That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM
- 960 Views
Re: That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM
- 812 Views
Then why...
10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM
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Re: Then why...
10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM
- 773 Views
God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM
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Re: God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM
- 878 Views
It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM
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Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM
- 1097 Views
That's a mathematical impossibility...
10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM
- 921 Views
Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations.
11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM
- 860 Views
You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM
- 892 Views
I agree
11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM
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Re: I agree
12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM
- 791 Views
BS didn't answer with "Read and find out"
12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM
- 820 Views
We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM*
13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM
- 484 Views
Actually she said "No"... *NM*
13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
- 575 Views
I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question.
13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM
- 822 Views
Eh, practically useless.
14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM
- 795 Views
I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM*
15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM
- 455 Views
Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though.
17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM
- 1361 Views