I do not think the particular motivation for a crime should be too big a factor in anything besides sentencing. Because looking at your Murder hate crime example, let me fill in a blank.
Murder Hate-Crime: "I was then pre-disposed (given why) to then gradually plan (filling in when, where, and how) to then gradually plan (filling in who) to now kill X."
"I was then pre-disposed by the murder of my daughter to then gradually plan to kill any child molestor-killers to the plot specifically to murder Mr. X when he moved in to my neighborhood and I found out what he'd done"
This example was clearly a hate-crime, the murderer hates a particular group of people, criminals, yes, but I can not see a difference there. Many murders have been done to drug dealers by people who were outraged at the loss of someone close through drug-trafficking, they despise that group. But the fact that it happens to be a specific type of criminal as opposed to black, jew, gay seems not to apply on contemplation because it could also include "I hate pot smokers" or "People who sell pirated movies".
That actually sums up in many ways why we got hate crime legislation to begin with. The locals often viewed 'group X' with contempt, some applauded the action. Now, with that in mind, how would most people typically react to hearing that a drug-dealer got snuffed by an angry parent? Or the child molestor? They'd mostly applaud, or maybe say "Well, it might have been wrong but..." I have difficulty seeing a tangible difference in there, the hate-crime murders we think of view themselves as vigilantes in the same way the guy who shoots a child molestor does.
Murder Hate-Crime: "I was then pre-disposed (given why) to then gradually plan (filling in when, where, and how) to then gradually plan (filling in who) to now kill X."
"I was then pre-disposed by the murder of my daughter to then gradually plan to kill any child molestor-killers to the plot specifically to murder Mr. X when he moved in to my neighborhood and I found out what he'd done"
This example was clearly a hate-crime, the murderer hates a particular group of people, criminals, yes, but I can not see a difference there. Many murders have been done to drug dealers by people who were outraged at the loss of someone close through drug-trafficking, they despise that group. But the fact that it happens to be a specific type of criminal as opposed to black, jew, gay seems not to apply on contemplation because it could also include "I hate pot smokers" or "People who sell pirated movies".
That actually sums up in many ways why we got hate crime legislation to begin with. The locals often viewed 'group X' with contempt, some applauded the action. Now, with that in mind, how would most people typically react to hearing that a drug-dealer got snuffed by an angry parent? Or the child molestor? They'd mostly applaud, or maybe say "Well, it might have been wrong but..." I have difficulty seeing a tangible difference in there, the hate-crime murders we think of view themselves as vigilantes in the same way the guy who shoots a child molestor does.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Matthew Shepard act passed
23/10/2009 07:54:07 PM
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Meh
23/10/2009 08:06:22 PM
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I'm sure Orwell would be intrigued by his own prognosticative abilities.
24/10/2009 12:52:24 AM
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Didn't we already slice crimes by degree of intention (e.g., murder vs. manslaughter) pre-Orwell?
24/10/2009 05:23:56 AM
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Not sure I agree there
24/10/2009 02:29:13 PM
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How about DADT, or employment non discrimination, or federal benefits for civil unions/marriages?
24/10/2009 01:23:06 AM
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See..this is much more important than Hate Crime Legislation, and it actually accomplishes something *NM*
24/10/2009 01:52:31 AM
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Agreed, but
24/10/2009 02:12:11 AM
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I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 02:22:46 AM
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I'm sure the law is not supposed to deter crime, but rather to ensure justice.
24/10/2009 03:49:58 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 04:07:52 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 04:51:43 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 05:02:27 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 05:27:35 AM
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So it's inherently worse for a gay man to get beaten up than a straight guy?
24/10/2009 03:45:43 AM
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Doesn't there have to be an indication ...
24/10/2009 04:33:49 AM
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Doesn't matter, Same crime, same punishment, with no extra preference given to anyone.
24/10/2009 04:48:22 AM
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All orientations are protected.
24/10/2009 05:17:55 AM
- 332 Views
yes and how many black men are sentenced for attacking white men?
24/10/2009 02:00:26 PM
- 305 Views
Minor point.
24/10/2009 04:46:25 PM
- 353 Views
well since almost everything he said turned out to be BS why not that too?
25/10/2009 02:36:25 PM
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