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That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent Isaac Send a noteboard - 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
Ad hominem requires not just that the counter targets you personally but is also irrelevant to the argument but used as though it were. If I call someone an asshole during an argument, that isn't usually ad hominem, if I call him irrational, that is not ad hominem. The term is getting abused more of late, especially on this site, then Strawman. "What does this man know about surgery? He's an obsessive gambler" is ad hominem. "What does this man know about surgery? He is not a doctor." is typically not. Claiming your opponent's argument (or they) are irrational or incoherent and so on generally won't be ad hominem and most cases I can think of it coming near that first hit various other ones like appeal to ridicule or proof by verbosity, in the context that one might try to discredit an opponent by simply repeating your belief they're a moron rather than ever explaining why.

Now I mention proof by verbosity partially because people use it all the time in these 'hot button' topics and probably most often as the 'everyone knows' ad populum fallacy or it's variation 'everyone with a brain/heart/etc' knows', and that latter is pretty odious on nearly an use but especially anyone in which 'everyone' doesn't include 90+% of adults, like 'the Earth is roughly spherical, not flat'.

I'm going into this because either you've got an incorrect view of what 'ad hominem' means or you think your opponent is too stupid or willfully blind to see the coherence and rightness of your arguments. Problem is, I didn't think they were coherent either, I do not see any justification for your #2 'A lot of people seem to claim/think that of the possible situations, situation 2 is preferable.' nor do you explain why in the hell it is actually relevant. A lot of people think the Moon Landing was faked, ' a lot' is a very vague term, and further one might ask what that has to do with the price of tea in China. Whatever point you were aiming for there, it either doesn't make sense or you have done the classic mistaking of leaving important bits out of an argument that were entirely right but remained in your head and never got transmitted to the audience, pretty common especially in casually written remarks. So it does come off as incoherent, because frankly you didn't get around to gluing them together, they are not adhering, not cohering.

As to #4, that's demonstrably false in numerous reasonable cases I'll cheerfully explain why in inordinate detail if you want, but for brevity's sake here, your case would require literally that there is no reasonable case where self-defense can occur using a gun that spends most of its time locked up in a safe, which is true of damn near every gun every military uses.

You've also started with a pretty confusing premise in the first place, since it revolves around the potential danger of a gun to its owner, something most gun owners are quite aware of, everything has its pros and cons, but in this case is best compared to a bodyguard. An awful lot of people have been betrayed by bodyguards throughout history, this does not invalidate the idea of having some. The logic you've presented would apply equally well to such cases and is very bizarre presented as a serious argument. Many people are murdered by family members or trusted persons, its not a very good reason not to have such people. A city wall won't protect you from riots in the streets, doesn't mean it serves no useful purpose, so to very little can protect you from treachery by a relative or close friend, this doesn't mean it's pointless, just unlikely to protect you from that specific thing. A locked door won't protect your form being robbed by your kid with a key, doesn't mean you don't bother having a door with a lock on it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 02/01/2013 at 09:07:06 PM
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When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them? - 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM 1735 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer - 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM 1160 Views
You're actually not right on that one - 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM 1098 Views
That wasn't the point I was making - 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM 1021 Views
You should probably clarify it then - 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM 1202 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post. - 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM 1371 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM* - 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM 603 Views
I think - 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM 1033 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle' - 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM 1031 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith - 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM 1097 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear. - 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM 1058 Views
Re: I thought I was being perfectly clear. - 21/12/2012 11:25:04 PM 1094 Views
Oh I wasn't commenting on the standard of people here - 21/12/2012 11:29:36 PM 1044 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se - 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM 1007 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense - 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM 1077 Views
He is right about Australia - 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM 1033 Views
No kidding - 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM 1025 Views
If you knew all that - 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM 1085 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant. - 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM 1026 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets. - 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM 1096 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns? - 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM 1251 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference. - 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM 1111 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable - 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM 1056 Views
How many of the people I was complaining about would know that? - 22/12/2012 12:48:59 AM 1025 Views
Some, possibly? I am ever the optimist - 22/12/2012 12:58:36 AM 1002 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one. - 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM 971 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know - 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM 960 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto - 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM 1133 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy" - 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM 1239 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system." - 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM 1117 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now - 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM 1195 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right? - 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM 947 Views
Well I can't say it surprises - 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM 927 Views
No one expects the Online Inquisition! - 27/12/2012 05:20:44 PM 944 Views
I've enjoyed most reboots - 28/12/2012 01:06:05 AM 877 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. - 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM 964 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. - 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM 1022 Views
umm... - 22/12/2012 12:41:31 PM 913 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout - 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM 1107 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed - 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM 1168 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM* - 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM 631 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification. - 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM 983 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM* - 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM 550 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution. - 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM 1082 Views
Yes you are. - 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM 913 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar. - 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM 1055 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to - 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM 1101 Views
You are wrong. - 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM 1043 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it. - 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM 1003 Views
We're also averse to being wrong. - 22/12/2012 02:53:49 PM 1049 Views
So you say... - 22/12/2012 03:32:16 PM 978 Views
guns r stpid *NM* - 23/12/2012 12:39:30 AM 718 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns - 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM 1040 Views
She was asleep with him in the house. - 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM 1071 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one... - 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM 985 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd. - 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM 992 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time... - 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM 977 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers. - 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM 979 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM* - 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM 593 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...." - 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM 978 Views
*see previous grammar lesson* *NM* - 28/12/2012 10:31:43 PM 554 Views
The instant it becomes relevant, I shall. - 28/12/2012 11:45:01 PM 1166 Views
Your point being? - 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM 965 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people. - 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM 915 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant? - 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM 966 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM* - 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM 608 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine. - 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM 994 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered. - 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM 1036 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed - 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM 963 Views
You make no sense. - 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM 1015 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point. - 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM 1097 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought - 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM 1027 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM* - 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM 691 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent - 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM 1112 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said - 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM 1101 Views
He did not - 05/01/2013 01:39:40 PM 1424 Views
Facts are irrelevant when FUD is the order of the day. - 24/12/2012 04:34:18 PM 949 Views
It irritates me too. *NM* - 01/01/2013 01:55:05 PM 588 Views

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