That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent
Isaac Send a noteboard - 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
Ad hominem requires not just that the counter targets you personally but is also irrelevant to the argument but used as though it were. If I call someone an asshole during an argument, that isn't usually ad hominem, if I call him irrational, that is not ad hominem. The term is getting abused more of late, especially on this site, then Strawman. "What does this man know about surgery? He's an obsessive gambler" is ad hominem. "What does this man know about surgery? He is not a doctor." is typically not. Claiming your opponent's argument (or they) are irrational or incoherent and so on generally won't be ad hominem and most cases I can think of it coming near that first hit various other ones like appeal to ridicule or proof by verbosity, in the context that one might try to discredit an opponent by simply repeating your belief they're a moron rather than ever explaining why.
Now I mention proof by verbosity partially because people use it all the time in these 'hot button' topics and probably most often as the 'everyone knows' ad populum fallacy or it's variation 'everyone with a brain/heart/etc' knows', and that latter is pretty odious on nearly an use but especially anyone in which 'everyone' doesn't include 90+% of adults, like 'the Earth is roughly spherical, not flat'.
I'm going into this because either you've got an incorrect view of what 'ad hominem' means or you think your opponent is too stupid or willfully blind to see the coherence and rightness of your arguments. Problem is, I didn't think they were coherent either, I do not see any justification for your #2 'A lot of people seem to claim/think that of the possible situations, situation 2 is preferable.' nor do you explain why in the hell it is actually relevant. A lot of people think the Moon Landing was faked, ' a lot' is a very vague term, and further one might ask what that has to do with the price of tea in China. Whatever point you were aiming for there, it either doesn't make sense or you have done the classic mistaking of leaving important bits out of an argument that were entirely right but remained in your head and never got transmitted to the audience, pretty common especially in casually written remarks. So it does come off as incoherent, because frankly you didn't get around to gluing them together, they are not adhering, not cohering.
As to #4, that's demonstrably false in numerous reasonable cases I'll cheerfully explain why in inordinate detail if you want, but for brevity's sake here, your case would require literally that there is no reasonable case where self-defense can occur using a gun that spends most of its time locked up in a safe, which is true of damn near every gun every military uses.
You've also started with a pretty confusing premise in the first place, since it revolves around the potential danger of a gun to its owner, something most gun owners are quite aware of, everything has its pros and cons, but in this case is best compared to a bodyguard. An awful lot of people have been betrayed by bodyguards throughout history, this does not invalidate the idea of having some. The logic you've presented would apply equally well to such cases and is very bizarre presented as a serious argument. Many people are murdered by family members or trusted persons, its not a very good reason not to have such people. A city wall won't protect you from riots in the streets, doesn't mean it serves no useful purpose, so to very little can protect you from treachery by a relative or close friend, this doesn't mean it's pointless, just unlikely to protect you from that specific thing. A locked door won't protect your form being robbed by your kid with a key, doesn't mean you don't bother having a door with a lock on it.
Now I mention proof by verbosity partially because people use it all the time in these 'hot button' topics and probably most often as the 'everyone knows' ad populum fallacy or it's variation 'everyone with a brain/heart/etc' knows', and that latter is pretty odious on nearly an use but especially anyone in which 'everyone' doesn't include 90+% of adults, like 'the Earth is roughly spherical, not flat'.
I'm going into this because either you've got an incorrect view of what 'ad hominem' means or you think your opponent is too stupid or willfully blind to see the coherence and rightness of your arguments. Problem is, I didn't think they were coherent either, I do not see any justification for your #2 'A lot of people seem to claim/think that of the possible situations, situation 2 is preferable.' nor do you explain why in the hell it is actually relevant. A lot of people think the Moon Landing was faked, ' a lot' is a very vague term, and further one might ask what that has to do with the price of tea in China. Whatever point you were aiming for there, it either doesn't make sense or you have done the classic mistaking of leaving important bits out of an argument that were entirely right but remained in your head and never got transmitted to the audience, pretty common especially in casually written remarks. So it does come off as incoherent, because frankly you didn't get around to gluing them together, they are not adhering, not cohering.
As to #4, that's demonstrably false in numerous reasonable cases I'll cheerfully explain why in inordinate detail if you want, but for brevity's sake here, your case would require literally that there is no reasonable case where self-defense can occur using a gun that spends most of its time locked up in a safe, which is true of damn near every gun every military uses.
You've also started with a pretty confusing premise in the first place, since it revolves around the potential danger of a gun to its owner, something most gun owners are quite aware of, everything has its pros and cons, but in this case is best compared to a bodyguard. An awful lot of people have been betrayed by bodyguards throughout history, this does not invalidate the idea of having some. The logic you've presented would apply equally well to such cases and is very bizarre presented as a serious argument. Many people are murdered by family members or trusted persons, its not a very good reason not to have such people. A city wall won't protect you from riots in the streets, doesn't mean it serves no useful purpose, so to very little can protect you from treachery by a relative or close friend, this doesn't mean it's pointless, just unlikely to protect you from that specific thing. A locked door won't protect your form being robbed by your kid with a key, doesn't mean you don't bother having a door with a lock on it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 02/01/2013 at 09:07:06 PM
When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them?
- 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM
1755 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer
- 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM
1176 Views
You're actually not right on that one
- 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM
1119 Views
That wasn't the point I was making
- 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM
1044 Views
You should probably clarify it then
- 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM
1218 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM
1387 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM*
- 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM
618 Views
I think
- 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM
1043 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle'
- 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM
1047 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith
- 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM
1115 Views
I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 12:38:45 AM
1042 Views
Re: I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 01:00:18 AM
1077 Views
Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 01:15:08 AM
1119 Views
Re: Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 09:35:38 AM
1225 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear.
- 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM
1074 Views
A bit of an aside, but I was reading that the gun used in the attack can be bought in Canada too.
- 21/12/2012 06:14:01 PM
1086 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se
- 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM
1032 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense
- 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM
1097 Views
He is right about Australia
- 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM
1042 Views
No kidding
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
1035 Views
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
1035 Views
If you knew all that
- 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM
1109 Views
Because I used wiki of course
- 21/12/2012 11:21:25 PM
1183 Views
He said ""self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon"
- 21/12/2012 11:34:59 PM
1006 Views
Yes,which is un-cited, but I did prove it's a valid excuse to use one, so...
- 22/12/2012 12:36:19 AM
1103 Views
The difference between allowing someone to defend themselves with a gun they have
- 22/12/2012 01:09:40 AM
1044 Views
Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:25 AM
1069 Views
Re: Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 09:51:51 AM
1154 Views
A wood chipper isn't a gun, and evidence without proof isn't evidence
- 22/12/2012 06:10:34 PM
1045 Views
If only you'd asked him for a citation rather than just saying you thought he was wrong eh? *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:29:30 AM
721 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant.
- 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM
1045 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets.
- 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM
1122 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns?
- 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM
1273 Views
Court rulings have determined that your Constitutional Rights can be restricted for felony/insanity *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:59:31 PM
638 Views
Activist judges should not make law.
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
1080 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
1080 Views
I agree, but the courts have already ruled that way so we are stuck. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:03:35 PM
610 Views
Then I guess we need the courts to rule gun owners need screening, training and licensing.
- 26/12/2012 03:46:05 PM
1051 Views
No, if you want to restrict the 2nd (or any other amendment) amend the Constitution
- 26/12/2012 07:56:19 PM
1026 Views
I do not want to restrict the Second Amendment, only enact the regulations it explictly allows.
- 26/12/2012 08:50:09 PM
1118 Views
I disagree with your interpretation. The simple EXISTANCE of the BoR makes it binding on the states
- 27/12/2012 03:46:17 PM
1046 Views
"Congress shall make no law..." restricts the STATES? How, exactly?
- 28/12/2012 03:03:19 PM
1018 Views
The 2nd amendment does not mention Congress in any way. There is that reading issue again.
- 28/12/2012 10:02:41 PM
1000 Views
You said, "the Bill of Rights," not "the Second Amendment."
- 28/12/2012 11:10:00 PM
1037 Views
Copy-N-Paste, get over it. we are specifically discussing the 2nd amendment, not everything.
- 29/12/2012 02:24:30 PM
958 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM
1131 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable
- 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM
1072 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one.
- 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM
1002 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know
- 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM
980 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto
- 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM
1154 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy"
- 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM
1259 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system."
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1131 Views
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1131 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now
- 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM
1210 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right?
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
961 Views
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
961 Views
Well I can't say it surprises
- 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM
938 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
982 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM
1036 Views
Yes people can always still kill each other, humans are very ingenuitive
- 22/12/2012 04:42:04 AM
1020 Views
I took a driving exam when I was 16, and have never been tested since, nor will I ever be.
- 23/12/2012 01:17:05 PM
1168 Views
Never is a long time; just renewing a license requires retaking the eye exam most places.
- 23/12/2012 02:16:54 PM
1069 Views
Rather hard to do an eye exam online or through the mail.
- 26/12/2012 03:08:06 PM
1163 Views
Yes, it is, which is why I have always had to go by DPS for a new license.
- 26/12/2012 03:50:04 PM
1002 Views
Tennessee and Florida pass them out like candy. For several years TN offered a no ID license
- 26/12/2012 08:02:39 PM
1013 Views
I still find it odd they require no eye test, that either allows the blind drivers licenses.
- 26/12/2012 08:58:57 PM
1023 Views
Oh yeah, we have wandered off course *shrug*
- 27/12/2012 03:55:55 PM
1162 Views
Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 03:35:34 PM
1109 Views
Re: Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 10:14:32 PM
892 Views
If you can prove someone voted illegally, call the ACLU and claim your $1000.
- 28/12/2012 11:18:38 PM
1055 Views
puhleeze.... election fraud is a fact. Pick a state, ANY state, ANY election...
- 29/12/2012 02:41:40 PM
1023 Views
Clip size is meaningless, semi-autos and even revolvers can be reloaded VERY quickly. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 01:20:59 PM
598 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout
- 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM
1123 Views
typical NRA bullshit response
- 22/12/2012 04:53:40 AM
1055 Views
typical Moondog bullshit response
- 23/12/2012 01:06:12 PM
1059 Views
of course! there is no connection between having a gun and shooting someone. got it
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
949 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
949 Views
There is no corelation between decidng to kill someone and what tool you use.
- 26/12/2012 03:11:08 PM
1001 Views
By that logic no one needs a gun for self-defense; a coffee mug is perfectly adequate.
- 26/12/2012 09:06:51 PM
1056 Views
I can kill you with my coffee mug... RESPECT THE MUG but I wouldn't, I might spill the coffee.
- 27/12/2012 04:08:52 PM
923 Views
So you are saying you do not need a gun then? I will keep mine anyway, thanks.
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
1016 Views
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
1016 Views
You covered a bunch of different things, and completely misrepresentted what I wrote
- 28/12/2012 10:28:24 PM
1064 Views
Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 28/12/2012 11:44:19 PM
1246 Views
Re: Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 29/12/2012 03:31:01 PM
1007 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed
- 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM
1183 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM
640 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification.
- 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM
1002 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM
558 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution.
- 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM
1103 Views
Yes you are.
- 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM
931 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar.
- 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM
1075 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to
- 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM
1127 Views
Ironically, you misspelled "learn."
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1358 Views
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1358 Views
I know, I thought about going back and fixing the typo, but thought it was funny so I left it.
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
593 Views
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
593 Views
2 commas or 4 makes no difference one is a 12D the other is a sentance.
- 28/12/2012 10:55:31 PM
991 Views
It makes a huge difference when (incorrectly) claiming to know the text.
- 28/12/2012 11:31:51 PM
1311 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meeant "able to use it effectively"
- 29/12/2012 03:47:57 PM
1060 Views
You are wrong.
- 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM
1053 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM
1019 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns
- 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM
1064 Views
She also had many knives, and blunt objecs around the house. Tools are only as good as the user
- 23/12/2012 01:10:58 PM
1080 Views
So clearly she wasn't prepared enough... btw, do we know she was sleeping?
- 27/12/2012 10:52:03 AM
999 Views
That she 1) was in bed, 2) had guns for self-defense and 3) was shot 4 times strongly suggests sleep
- 28/12/2012 11:49:20 PM
1124 Views
She was asleep with him in the house.
- 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM
1088 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one...
- 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM
1007 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd.
- 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM
1011 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time...
- 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM
996 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers.
- 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM
999 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM
600 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...."
- 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM
998 Views
Your point being?
- 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM
979 Views
I am certain it would have been better, though not good, if she had been awake and shot him.
- 27/12/2012 02:16:13 PM
1065 Views
So the situation of Nancy and Adam shooting at each other
- 28/12/2012 07:44:12 AM
1088 Views
No, I believe they were both mentally incompetent to have guns; that does not mean EVERYONE is.
- 28/12/2012 02:19:51 PM
1015 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people.
- 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM
929 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant?
- 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM
986 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM*
- 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM
611 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine.
- 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM
1013 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered.
- 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM
1048 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed
- 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM
974 Views
You make no sense.
- 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM
1033 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point.
- 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM
1113 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought
- 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM
1046 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM*
- 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM
700 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent
- 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
1140 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said
- 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM
1119 Views
