People who want abortions badly enough to have one will, whether or not law makes it "convenient."
Joel Send a noteboard - 27/10/2012 02:58:52 AM
that would be aborted if it were legal, but wouldn't if illegal. People's behavior changes based on the law. You can't possibly think that legalizing abortion didn't increase the number of abortions taking place.
If abortion was not legal, fewer abortions would take place. I feel bad saying "fewer" because it almost minimizes just how large the difference would be.
If abortion was not legal, fewer abortions would take place. I feel bad saying "fewer" because it almost minimizes just how large the difference would be.
If abortion were illegal fewer abortions would be DETECTED, and thousands, if not millions, of women would be crippled/killed in the process. Yet abortion INCIDENCE would likely change little, because abortion is rarely the casually callous decision of convenience its opponents contend, so anti-abortion laws are little deterrent (the possibility of serious injury or death was probably a greater one, and still insufficient for many.)
Even were all that not true, we are STILL not talking about something unambiguously a child, and you will not lead me into that false paradigm. Even ONE woman dying a painful miserable death because you and many others BELIEVE—with little evidence, let alone proof—all fetuses are children whose lives abortion bans save, that would be injustice. We do not get to simply declare things people on scanty evidence and subject undeniable people to their rights (except, of course, corporations, but that is another rant. )
Believe what you wish, but legislate only what you can prove. I believe but cannot prove life begins at conception (VERY soon after, at the least,) and therefore will never have an abortion; I strongly urge others to adopt the same position in its entirety. I cannot, however, force them to do so without proof I am right.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 27/10/2012 at 03:05:17 AM
God Distances Self From Christian Right
26/10/2012 01:56:18 PM
- 1223 Views
Do you really think God would condone abortion? *NM*
26/10/2012 03:28:25 PM
- 356 Views
Depends on when a fetus is a being, which the GOP contends is "at the moment of fertilization."
26/10/2012 03:57:44 PM
- 551 Views
Actually, I don't see any place in the Bible where God is....
26/10/2012 04:00:19 PM
- 725 Views
Where did I say one word about God accommodating our sin?
26/10/2012 05:55:52 PM
- 588 Views
You're technically right, Joel, but...
26/10/2012 07:32:10 PM
- 595 Views
Almost may count in hand grenades, but definitely not in canon.
26/10/2012 10:28:57 PM
- 635 Views
Your lack of scientific understanding is everything in this instance.
26/10/2012 10:44:05 PM
- 588 Views
Because whether God intends rape is aaaall about science, right?
26/10/2012 11:08:16 PM
- 516 Views
You're getting rather emphatic.
26/10/2012 11:27:07 PM
- 584 Views
Broad fundamental change to US law by controlling all three branches of government provokes that.
27/10/2012 12:44:59 AM
- 570 Views
Condemn women to die? What a strange way to look at this.
26/10/2012 07:17:16 PM
- 640 Views
women *did* die before abortion was legalized, there should be no dispute of this aspect
26/10/2012 07:27:28 PM
- 644 Views
So we legalize an illegal act because some are willing to harm themselves to do it? *NM*
26/10/2012 10:02:37 PM
- 317 Views
no, we legalize the act so that it can be performed safely without killing both mother *and* child *NM*
26/10/2012 11:08:52 PM
- 331 Views
Very good point, but that was not (at least soley) what I meant, no.
26/10/2012 11:12:32 PM
- 565 Views
If something should be illegal in its own right, it is nonsense to legalize it because criminals
26/10/2012 11:40:41 PM
- 588 Views
If banning it saves no lives but inevitably takes more, the ban is counterproductive.
27/10/2012 12:48:51 AM
- 611 Views
That is absolutely absurd. It saves the lives of all...
27/10/2012 12:59:16 AM
- 628 Views
you're still missing the point that abortions will still be performed if it were illegal
27/10/2012 01:02:57 AM
- 529 Views
I'm not missing the point, you are.
27/10/2012 01:21:39 AM
- 688 Views
This isn't necessarily true, though it is often due to other factors.
27/10/2012 02:48:00 PM
- 623 Views
People who want abortions badly enough to have one will, whether or not law makes it "convenient."
27/10/2012 02:58:52 AM
- 530 Views
Telling a woman whose life was in danger not to save it with abortion condemned her to die
26/10/2012 10:48:53 PM
- 537 Views
There is no proof that you would accept that a fetus is a child.
26/10/2012 11:31:50 PM
- 530 Views
Fantastic question.
26/10/2012 11:43:51 PM
- 567 Views
No, I would err on the side of caution; have often said as much in just those words.
27/10/2012 01:18:19 AM
- 551 Views
Sure there is; show me a fetus acting indepedently and consciously.
27/10/2012 01:15:00 AM
- 554 Views
Perfect example of media sensationalism
26/10/2012 04:13:41 PM
- 631 Views
I agree with your larger point and am not trying to be argumentative
26/10/2012 04:29:23 PM
- 606 Views
yeah, but what do women know about women's issues? this is man talk time!
26/10/2012 05:01:58 PM
- 572 Views
THAT is the whole problem with his comment.
26/10/2012 05:59:40 PM
- 530 Views
Or it could mean....
26/10/2012 11:50:53 PM
- 586 Views
Having addressed this in response to Legolas in moondogs thread on Mourdock, I will just link that.
27/10/2012 01:43:48 AM
- 594 Views
I agree
26/10/2012 07:27:21 PM
- 621 Views
It's always a slippery slope, talking about what God did and did not intend.
27/10/2012 12:06:22 AM
- 585 Views
There is a logically consistent way; you did not ask for it, so I will be brief.
27/10/2012 02:53:09 AM
- 593 Views
Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause.
26/10/2012 05:51:28 PM
- 578 Views
God intends everything.
27/10/2012 04:40:58 PM
- 663 Views
"Intends" is a big word.
27/10/2012 09:23:13 PM
- 609 Views
It is sad that this is getting more press than the Bengazi scandal *NM*
26/10/2012 05:58:22 PM
- 314 Views
that's probably because it's more relevant to most people's lives *NM*
26/10/2012 06:06:10 PM
- 331 Views
This entire scandal really speaks to the Calvinist heresy in particular.
26/10/2012 07:10:38 PM
- 547 Views
I was trying REALLY hard to avoid putting it in precisely those terms.
26/10/2012 10:12:17 PM
- 599 Views
Well, but really, the fundamental crux of the issue is precisely that.
27/10/2012 01:03:26 AM
- 562 Views
True, but disputing founding articles of faith benefits from tact.
27/10/2012 02:02:48 AM
- 537 Views
Come on, Tom.
27/10/2012 03:29:39 AM
- 534 Views
I believe HE grasps the difference between predestination and determinism well.
27/10/2012 09:33:14 PM
- 600 Views
The comment that sparked this was moronic even to the vast majority of religious conservatives. *NM*
26/10/2012 09:42:51 PM
- 332 Views
Yet its author remains the only Senate nominee for whom Romney is running ads.
26/10/2012 10:53:37 PM
- 552 Views
Is the senator's comment more disgusting to you than the President's vote against the
26/10/2012 11:54:55 PM
- 561 Views
how does one vote against a bill which passed by unanimous consent?
27/10/2012 12:11:37 AM
- 563 Views
As a state senator in 2001 in illinois he was the sole opponent to the aforementioned bill. *NM*
27/10/2012 12:14:08 AM
- 331 Views
[citation needed]
27/10/2012 12:15:41 AM
- 516 Views
It was an illinois state bill. *NM*
27/10/2012 12:23:12 AM
- 317 Views
yes, i finally found *something* regarding a state bill which he did oppose
27/10/2012 12:34:40 AM
- 555 Views
The BAIPA became federal law 2 years before Obamas Senate win; he says he would have voted for it.
27/10/2012 02:33:26 AM
- 537 Views
Once he started taking fire for it he said he would have voted for it? Well that clears that up.
27/10/2012 07:09:21 AM
- 743 Views
He "took fire" for a federal law passed before he was in Congress?
27/10/2012 04:08:25 PM
- 623 Views
amazing
28/10/2012 05:04:21 AM
- 668 Views
Women are certainly encouraged to weigh in, but everyone is entitled to thoughts on the matter
28/10/2012 02:22:55 PM
- 544 Views