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Putting your hand on something is a little different then shooting someone Isaac Send a noteboard - 25/07/2012 08:13:59 PM
Anecdotal evidence, but then so was yours. Hell a lot of people used to carrying weapons tend to reach for them even when they don't have them on, I still sometimes do. A gun is a mental security blanket. Now, let me say more importantly that this is not proper debate, we do not use anecdotal evidence, we use science and reason when trying to press facts. If you want to assert people in a panic forget they have a gun, check. Run a study, either a very large one to grab a decent sized sample of concealed carry, or just do cops or soldiers. Bring them in ostensibly for something else, like their favorite soda or whatever, and in the middle of it with video running drop a flashbang in the room or hit the stereo on full volume or whatever and see what percentage reach for their gun. That would tell you what percentage of folks who carry weapons tend to react when startled by reaching for it. That won't tell you how many would react to a shooter, presumably more will reach for a gun during a 1-5 second period after their brain screams 'homicidal lunatic with gun' though I daresay the 'with gun' bit is even more likely to set off 'Gun! Gun! Oh, yeah, I've got a gun too'. Also, I think the weight of common sense is that once a person has a hand on their weapon they are very likely to begin including opening fire on their list of responses. Regardless, you can't just make assertions like that as fact, especially if disputed, these things need testing.

And how the hell is all that supposed to be any comfort when every kid on the street who aims with a toy gun has to fear the guys who always wear a real one and are quick to draw it as an instinct?


There is a hell of a big difference between habitually reaching for the handle of your gun and popping off the thumb break, pulling it out, taking aim, flicking off the safety, and squeezing the trigger. Also one generally needs to feel seriously threatened to leap into violent responses and your average 4 year old with a toy gun doesn't qualify... but then, in the US pretty much every toy gun made these days is made to look very much like a toy. Any parent who lets their kid run around with an convincing facsimile deserves a flogging and any adult or teenager stupid enough to jump out on someone with a plausible facsimile is probably going to find some way to get themselves stupidly killed anyway. Jumping in or out of traffic, chewing on power lines, making toast in the tub, etc.

I said people were quick to 'reach for' not 'draw', I don't think I've ever seen a pistol leave a holster outside of a credible threat. Most holsters and scabbards have retain straps or thumb breaks on them to prevent the weapon falling out and generally retard spur of the moment yanking too.

Unbelievable.


Yes, it really is. And the thing here is, while I can appreciate anxious concerns about gun safety I would like to think people who don't come from gun cultures might stop to ponder that a country that has all of 2 accidental shooting deaths per million people, and million guns, per year might conceivably imply that people don't yank out their guns and fire them into people every time they get spooked. Most accidental shootings do not involve the persons who most commonly carry guns regularly anyway, they are hunting accidents or people/kids new to weapons or screwing with someone else's. Accidental shootings make up about 2% of US gun fatalities, and 'accident' is broadly defined.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 25/07/2012 at 08:15:39 PM
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Do you have strong feelings/opinions about gun control? - 25/07/2012 05:48:56 AM 1327 Views
Kind of? - 25/07/2012 05:59:39 AM 771 Views
Agreed - 25/07/2012 06:20:44 AM 617 Views
Re: Agreed - 25/07/2012 06:29:16 AM 757 Views
A lot of people are uncomfortable about homsexuality. Let's ban that too. - 25/07/2012 09:26:46 PM 744 Views
Feisty. - 25/07/2012 09:54:31 PM 848 Views
I'm pro-guns, but I don't think I have strong feelings about anything - 25/07/2012 07:36:31 AM 687 Views
I am mostly in agreement with you. - 26/07/2012 02:11:56 AM 560 Views
Fully automatic weapons are already forbidden, aren't they? - 27/07/2012 02:19:57 AM 681 Views
Pretty strong (as someone born, raised and living outside the US) - 25/07/2012 11:23:52 AM 759 Views
I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 11:41:13 AM 816 Views
Re: I'm okay with guns in very limited circumstances. - 25/07/2012 01:21:36 PM 697 Views
Inevitable thread, but mostly I feel people enters this debate without knowing enough about guns - 25/07/2012 02:05:12 PM 895 Views
I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 02:47:05 PM 795 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 03:00:07 PM 697 Views
Re: - 25/07/2012 03:30:44 PM 743 Views
Okay, that makes no sense - 25/07/2012 04:32:28 PM 748 Views
Re: Re: - 25/07/2012 05:50:23 PM 770 Views
Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry. - 25/07/2012 10:48:46 PM 794 Views
I understand, but you probably should if time permits - 25/07/2012 03:49:49 PM 902 Views
It is unlikely to, for a while. - 25/07/2012 10:37:30 PM 784 Views
Oh, but you have time to read Cannoli though - 26/07/2012 01:10:50 AM 720 Views
... his was shorter? - 26/07/2012 02:41:48 PM 635 Views
Yeah but mine had diagrams! - 26/07/2012 03:46:49 PM 718 Views
I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:55:17 PM 583 Views
Re: I do sometimes need pictures. - 26/07/2012 04:57:57 PM 717 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2012 05:23:11 PM 362 Views
Where exactly did you get those numbers? - 27/07/2012 07:23:31 PM 733 Views
He's right as far as numbers go. - 27/07/2012 08:08:02 PM 774 Views
Wikipedia, the unchallenged source for acurate and complete citation - 27/07/2012 08:19:40 PM 798 Views
Sorry, I totally forgot about this post, hadn't noticed your replies. - 31/07/2012 07:42:43 PM 709 Views
I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 08:18:04 PM 689 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 09:14:34 PM 670 Views
Re: I'm not surprised there were missing incidents - 31/07/2012 11:56:05 PM 831 Views
Norway? Scotland? - 25/07/2012 09:31:49 PM 681 Views
You can keep this up - 25/07/2012 09:56:28 PM 659 Views
Hi, Cannoli. - 25/07/2012 10:30:56 PM 692 Views
well it could have at least double posted the edited version - 26/07/2012 10:40:32 PM 635 Views
Most of those numbers come from inner city violence - 26/07/2012 10:40:34 PM 844 Views
Re: Hi, Cannoli. - 09/08/2012 09:07:03 PM 743 Views
The UK tightened gun laws after the Dunblane massacre. - 25/07/2012 10:58:08 PM 615 Views
I have no problem with guns, but I agree that assault weapons shouldn't be legal for ordinary people - 25/07/2012 02:56:38 PM 742 Views
Re: guns - 25/07/2012 03:07:30 PM 791 Views
what is the basis for your argument that people would have panicked and forgotten their guns? - 25/07/2012 04:45:46 PM 644 Views
My basis is that people are people - subject to panic, confusion, and fear. *NM* - 25/07/2012 05:46:58 PM 418 Views
Most people who regularly carry weapons reach for them when spooked, in my experience - 25/07/2012 06:14:57 PM 691 Views
Re: Most people who regularly carry weapons reach for them when spooked, in my experience - 25/07/2012 06:45:02 PM 800 Views
Putting your hand on something is a little different then shooting someone - 25/07/2012 08:13:59 PM 656 Views
The problem with banning assualt weapons is the defention is mostly cosmetic - 25/07/2012 05:29:35 PM 650 Views
Bullshit - 26/07/2012 01:52:59 PM 792 Views
I call Bullshit on your Bullshit - 26/07/2012 02:59:09 PM 703 Views
Or - 26/07/2012 03:20:12 PM 619 Views
There a lot of us with military training and some were in that theater - 26/07/2012 03:43:52 PM 619 Views
HE was talking about normal people. - 26/07/2012 04:53:16 PM 730 Views
I think we are talking past each other - 26/07/2012 05:55:48 PM 690 Views
Possibly. We do do that. - 26/07/2012 06:52:58 PM 723 Views
In addition to random thoughts's points... - 26/07/2012 03:10:56 PM 635 Views
You're partially right but mostly wrong - 26/07/2012 05:46:27 PM 708 Views
Correct me if I'm wrong.... - 25/07/2012 03:53:07 PM 860 Views
You're wrong - 25/07/2012 04:37:22 PM 642 Views
Yes. - 25/07/2012 05:09:36 PM 644 Views
Yes and I am glad it's not my problem. - 25/07/2012 06:41:56 PM 773 Views
Dude, your burglary argument makes no sense - 25/07/2012 11:09:37 PM 693 Views
It makes lots of sense, actually. - 25/07/2012 11:55:59 PM 672 Views
They don't bring guns here. Huh. *NM* - 26/07/2012 12:59:15 AM 335 Views
they don't typically bring guns here either - 26/07/2012 02:01:14 AM 763 Views
That's how I understand it too but I'm dubious, many criminals are dumber than a bag of hammers - 26/07/2012 02:22:18 AM 651 Views
Ha! - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 PM 541 Views
One of my Marine friends became a Fort Worth cop when he got out - 26/07/2012 03:11:12 PM 740 Views
You get some wild stories - 26/07/2012 06:09:52 PM 744 Views
Like I've always said, you can't un-invent the gun - 25/07/2012 11:05:22 PM 644 Views
Agreed. It's really a lot like health care, in a way. - 26/07/2012 12:07:20 AM 753 Views
Sure, but you can legislate certain excessive firearms. - 26/07/2012 09:41:12 PM 720 Views
assault rifles are banned - 26/07/2012 10:51:28 PM 676 Views
Touchy - 28/07/2012 04:33:46 AM 854 Views

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