Putting your hand on something is a little different then shooting someone
Isaac Send a noteboard - 25/07/2012 08:13:59 PM
Anecdotal evidence, but then so was yours. Hell a lot of people used to carrying weapons tend to reach for them even when they don't have them on, I still sometimes do. A gun is a mental security blanket. Now, let me say more importantly that this is not proper debate, we do not use anecdotal evidence, we use science and reason when trying to press facts. If you want to assert people in a panic forget they have a gun, check. Run a study, either a very large one to grab a decent sized sample of concealed carry, or just do cops or soldiers. Bring them in ostensibly for something else, like their favorite soda or whatever, and in the middle of it with video running drop a flashbang in the room or hit the stereo on full volume or whatever and see what percentage reach for their gun. That would tell you what percentage of folks who carry weapons tend to react when startled by reaching for it. That won't tell you how many would react to a shooter, presumably more will reach for a gun during a 1-5 second period after their brain screams 'homicidal lunatic with gun' though I daresay the 'with gun' bit is even more likely to set off 'Gun! Gun! Oh, yeah, I've got a gun too'. Also, I think the weight of common sense is that once a person has a hand on their weapon they are very likely to begin including opening fire on their list of responses. Regardless, you can't just make assertions like that as fact, especially if disputed, these things need testing.
And how the hell is all that supposed to be any comfort when every kid on the street who aims with a toy gun has to fear the guys who always wear a real one and are quick to draw it as an instinct?
There is a hell of a big difference between habitually reaching for the handle of your gun and popping off the thumb break, pulling it out, taking aim, flicking off the safety, and squeezing the trigger. Also one generally needs to feel seriously threatened to leap into violent responses and your average 4 year old with a toy gun doesn't qualify... but then, in the US pretty much every toy gun made these days is made to look very much like a toy. Any parent who lets their kid run around with an convincing facsimile deserves a flogging and any adult or teenager stupid enough to jump out on someone with a plausible facsimile is probably going to find some way to get themselves stupidly killed anyway. Jumping in or out of traffic, chewing on power lines, making toast in the tub, etc.
I said people were quick to 'reach for' not 'draw', I don't think I've ever seen a pistol leave a holster outside of a credible threat. Most holsters and scabbards have retain straps or thumb breaks on them to prevent the weapon falling out and generally retard spur of the moment yanking too.
Unbelievable.
Yes, it really is. And the thing here is, while I can appreciate anxious concerns about gun safety I would like to think people who don't come from gun cultures might stop to ponder that a country that has all of 2 accidental shooting deaths per million people, and million guns, per year might conceivably imply that people don't yank out their guns and fire them into people every time they get spooked. Most accidental shootings do not involve the persons who most commonly carry guns regularly anyway, they are hunting accidents or people/kids new to weapons or screwing with someone else's. Accidental shootings make up about 2% of US gun fatalities, and 'accident' is broadly defined.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 25/07/2012 at 08:15:39 PM
Do you have strong feelings/opinions about gun control?
25/07/2012 05:48:56 AM
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Kind of?
25/07/2012 05:59:39 AM
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Agreed
25/07/2012 06:20:44 AM
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Re: Agreed
25/07/2012 06:29:16 AM
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A lot of people are uncomfortable about homsexuality. Let's ban that too.
25/07/2012 09:26:46 PM
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I'm pro-guns, but I don't think I have strong feelings about anything
25/07/2012 07:36:31 AM
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Pretty strong (as someone born, raised and living outside the US)
25/07/2012 11:23:52 AM
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Inevitable thread, but mostly I feel people enters this debate without knowing enough about guns
25/07/2012 02:05:12 PM
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I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry.
25/07/2012 02:47:05 PM
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Re: I have to admit that I didn't read most of that, sorry.
25/07/2012 03:00:07 PM
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Re:
25/07/2012 03:30:44 PM
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My dad's gun were stolen and the police said they didn't need to even take fingerprints
25/07/2012 06:58:36 PM
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I understand, but you probably should if time permits
25/07/2012 03:49:49 PM
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It is unlikely to, for a while.
25/07/2012 10:37:30 PM
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Oh, but you have time to read Cannoli though
26/07/2012 01:10:50 AM
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... his was shorter?
26/07/2012 02:41:48 PM
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Yeah but mine had diagrams!
26/07/2012 03:46:49 PM
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I do sometimes need pictures.
26/07/2012 04:55:17 PM
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Where exactly did you get those numbers?
27/07/2012 07:23:31 PM
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Wikipedia, the unchallenged source for acurate and complete citation
27/07/2012 08:19:40 PM
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Sorry, I totally forgot about this post, hadn't noticed your replies.
31/07/2012 07:42:43 PM
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I'm not surprised there were missing incidents
31/07/2012 08:18:04 PM
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Norway? Scotland?
25/07/2012 09:31:49 PM
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And yet, the people who do these things tend to be more respectful of guns
25/07/2012 03:44:31 PM
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Well working with dangeorus items tends to lead to respect and caution or a Darwin Award
25/07/2012 04:52:13 PM
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I have no problem with guns, but I agree that assault weapons shouldn't be legal for ordinary people
25/07/2012 02:56:38 PM
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Re: guns
25/07/2012 03:07:30 PM
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what is the basis for your argument that people would have panicked and forgotten their guns?
25/07/2012 04:45:46 PM
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My basis is that people are people - subject to panic, confusion, and fear. *NM*
25/07/2012 05:46:58 PM
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Most people who regularly carry weapons reach for them when spooked, in my experience
25/07/2012 06:14:57 PM
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Re: Most people who regularly carry weapons reach for them when spooked, in my experience
25/07/2012 06:45:02 PM
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Putting your hand on something is a little different then shooting someone
25/07/2012 08:13:59 PM
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The problem with banning assualt weapons is the defention is mostly cosmetic
25/07/2012 05:29:35 PM
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Bullshit
26/07/2012 01:52:59 PM
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I call Bullshit on your Bullshit
26/07/2012 02:59:09 PM
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Or
26/07/2012 03:20:12 PM
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There a lot of us with military training and some were in that theater
26/07/2012 03:43:52 PM
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HE was talking about normal people.
26/07/2012 04:53:16 PM
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i have pretty strong feelings that they should be better regulated than they currently are
25/07/2012 03:18:10 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong....
25/07/2012 03:53:07 PM
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I believe it was the ammunition he bought in large amounts online, not the guns themselves.
25/07/2012 07:22:31 PM
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Yes and I am glad it's not my problem.
25/07/2012 06:41:56 PM
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Well, you're missing the flaw in your reasoning...probably because you're appallingly ignorant
25/07/2012 09:19:18 PM
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Come back when you can discuss something without attacking someone.
26/07/2012 12:58:47 AM
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Dude, your burglary argument makes no sense
25/07/2012 11:09:37 PM
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They don't bring guns here. Huh. *NM*
26/07/2012 12:59:15 AM
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they don't typically bring guns here either
26/07/2012 02:01:14 AM
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That's how I understand it too but I'm dubious, many criminals are dumber than a bag of hammers
26/07/2012 02:22:18 AM
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Like I've always said, you can't un-invent the gun
25/07/2012 11:05:22 PM
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the argument of if America should have a lot guns is a long over
26/07/2012 03:29:50 PM
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See, there's another one of those BS stats tricks, 'family members' includes suicides and murder
26/07/2012 06:47:54 PM
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Sure, but you can legislate certain excessive firearms.
26/07/2012 09:41:12 PM
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assault rifles are banned
26/07/2012 10:51:28 PM
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I know the distinction. That's why I want a more clearly defined term for "assault weapon."
27/07/2012 09:46:11 AM
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Then stay away from the hyperbole because an Uzi is a sub machinegun so it is banned
27/07/2012 01:48:50 PM
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