You might, as usual, want to ease up a bit on the generalizations - I'm not really sure if it's worse to over-generalize in the discussion of countries that you know little about, or in the discussion of countries you know a lot about since you lived in them for three decades and all, but it's a bad idea in either case. Believe it or not, people in the Middle-East have brains and can think for themselves. They can do other things besides be oppressed by secular dictators or slavishly follow Sayyid Qutb's corpse.
For one thing, I don't really have one, but for another, I've seen no evidence democracy has a dog in this fight. I've seen lots of violence from both sides, sectarian murder in the last month and nationalist murder in the past few years, but nothing to indicate Mubarak is likely to be replaced any time soon except by a regime as authoritarian, repressive, brutal and violent as his, if not more so. In between terrorising foreigners, torching government buildings and hurling homemade bombs at cops, what reform policies have been suggested? IF (and I'm not convinced either way, though I don't like the little I've seen) the only difference Mubarak represents is brutality and sectarian murder on a smaller scale, yes, that's preferrable to simply expanding the scope of brutality and sectarian murder--which is why Egyptian law gave its president emergency powers to impose martial law. It's ironic and telling that people who feel that enacting that power was or is unjustified are justifying it so well right now.
Sure, Mid-Easterners are intelligent human beings; most of Iran is, much good as it does them under the mullahs. Unfortunately, the commentaries and analysis I've seen on the riots in Egypt (and, really, when you start burning buildings, terrorizing foreigners and throwing bombs you've crossed the line from "protester" to "rioter" ) all agree on two points:
1) Part of why Mubarak's lasted so long is because there are so few rivals who could supplant him and
2) If his government does topple it's almost a given the new government will be controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood.
That in turn implies several more things to me:
1) Even if everyone votes freely, Sayyid Qutbs philosophical heirs will win the majority,
2) Their hold on power will be tenuous and, consequently,
3) Their need to maintain control combined with the militant sectarianism and xenophobia Sayyid Qutb insitutionalized in the Muslim Brotherhood will mean repression and violence will not only continue, but be directed against anyone and everyone deemed dangerously Western/infidel/heretical.
Sure, not all Egyptians follow his corpse, but enough of them do to cause his imprisonment, just as the danger of him causing violent revolution was enough to get him executed. If you want to argue Egypt should've given Qutb and his student Iman Al Zawahiri fair trials before imprisoning them, I'll agree, but if you want to argue they'd make better Egyptian leaders than Mubarak simply because they can muster an electoral plurality I can't. Give me a reason to believe Mubarak isn't just the Shah all over again--in EVERY sense--and I might endorse what's happening in Egypt. The scale and extent of violence argue against that, as does the seemingly unanimous analyst view that removing Mubarak would simply install a government consisting of people who think violence against seemingly everyone not an orthodox (in their eyes) male Muslim is not only right but necessary.
Do NOT, however, make the mistake of assuming that because I don't endores Hitlers invasion of Poland I support Stalin. It's not my country and I have no right or ability to do anything but watch things play out on their own, but I've seen this scenario too many times to expect some miraculously new end game. Would I love to see a new government close down Mubaraks political prisons, end persecution, torture and murder? Unquestionably. Do I expect the Muslim Brotherhood government everyone agrees would replace Mubarak to do anything except torture decadent Westerners, indecent women, infidels and heretics in those same prisons when they aren't just brutalized or executed on the spot? Their "martyred" teachers distaste for "individual liberty" along with much else he saw in my country argues for exactly that, and that Al Zawahiri would be able to come home along with many of his friends. Democracy without individual liberty is patently absurd, so, no, this doesn't strike me as democracy vs. dictatorship, but rather as a competition over who should control the dictatorship the majority wants. Again, I don't have a dog in that fight.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
If anyone's looking for up-to-date info on what's going on in Egypt
28/01/2011 08:08:31 PM
- 623 Views
Clarify: Democracy fans should favor the protesters because they have more violent thugs,right?
28/01/2011 11:37:48 PM
- 473 Views
and socialism fans should favor the violent dicator since he can bring order and subsidies
29/01/2011 12:16:37 AM
- 341 Views
He mainly seems to bring close diplomatic ties to the US and alternatives to the Muslim Brotherhood
29/01/2011 12:59:48 AM
- 492 Views
You might want to do a quick check on the political situation in Egypt at this time.
29/01/2011 11:37:02 AM
- 406 Views
I've done a quick one; it makes me question whether government by the protesters would be better.
29/01/2011 11:44:10 PM
- 377 Views
It's a fairly simple matter, really.
29/01/2011 11:52:41 AM
- 416 Views
The trouble with free elections is: They're free.
29/01/2011 11:53:22 PM
- 326 Views
A vote for dictatorship and against democracy it is. Just checking.
30/01/2011 12:08:41 AM
- 366 Views
I haven't cast a vote.
30/01/2011 02:02:11 AM
- 346 Views
Not one that counts no, but still.
30/01/2011 01:11:59 PM
- 812 Views
None of any kind.
31/01/2011 12:10:07 AM
- 387 Views
so you support tyranny of others if it makes things more comfortable for you?
30/01/2011 05:15:01 AM
- 387 Views
I oppose brutal oppression; I'm unconvinced either side in this will end it, thus I withhold support
30/01/2011 05:21:37 AM
- 332 Views
some times it is black and white
31/01/2011 12:37:36 AM
- 330 Views
I fully support their right to demand democracy; I don't expect they'll get it, whatever happens.
31/01/2011 01:45:23 AM
- 527 Views
You're not seriously expecting them to do their revolution American Revolution-style, are you?
29/01/2011 11:28:31 AM
- 392 Views
I think terrorizing innocents and torching buildings is a poor way to claim the moral highground.
29/01/2011 11:32:19 PM
- 394 Views
British Colonialism wasn't a walk in the park
30/01/2011 03:53:58 AM
- 346 Views
Comparatively speaking, yes, it really was. Or at least in the US - not always so much in Asia.
30/01/2011 10:42:53 AM
- 336 Views
Re: Comparatively speaking, yes, it really was. Or at least in the US - not always so much in Asia.
30/01/2011 02:32:52 PM
- 390 Views
You can't be serious.
30/01/2011 03:07:18 PM
- 325 Views
Pretty serious
30/01/2011 04:52:24 PM
- 481 Views
Re: Pretty serious
30/01/2011 05:11:50 PM
- 374 Views
This is ridicolous
30/01/2011 05:31:31 PM
- 436 Views
I wouldn't normally think this necessary with you, but okay: let's go back and see what I said.
30/01/2011 06:34:09 PM
- 406 Views
you forget that it was supposdely thier own citizens the British were abusing.
31/01/2011 12:39:33 AM
- 429 Views
Sure, but organized into hostile armies. A rather different matter, that. *NM*
31/01/2011 09:46:25 PM
- 149 Views
I dont know if this will help you understand what is going on there
30/01/2011 02:45:41 AM
- 362 Views
Yikes indeed
29/01/2011 03:57:25 AM
- 388 Views
Apparently Egypt blocked access to Facebook, Twitter and some other websites.
29/01/2011 11:38:46 AM
- 347 Views
Heh, her update was basically "Thanks for turning facebook back on, Egypt."
29/01/2011 06:36:49 PM
- 305 Views
There seems to be some big misconceptions about the Egyption crisis
31/01/2011 11:52:37 PM
- 624 Views