Those who have accused specific people or groups will most likely have to backtrack and apologize.
Legolas Send a noteboard - 10/01/2011 06:48:33 PM
Like several other notable perpetrators of political crimes, this guy Loughner seems to have a rather confused view of politics with opinions ranging all over the place. If he can in the end be tied to some person or group who would have influenced him to act as he did, it certainly won't be any important or mainstream person/group.
That said, it is admittedly possible but rather unlikely that the shooting was entirely unrelated to politics - i.e., that it was a coincidence that Giffords was the first target. Nobody but Loughner himself is responsible for his actions, but until we know more about his exact motivations, the assumption that there is a connection between his actions and the current political climate is rather more likely than the assumption that there is not. And really, even if it should turn out that there is in fact no connection at all, and the guy had personal reasons for targeting Giffords, the incident may still serve as a wake-up call to the nation that the polarization is reaching dangerous levels. Polarization, of course, being something that per definition involves two "poles". Keith Olbermann certainly doesn't have any room to talk. If some of the left think that their aggressive rhetoric can't possibly lead to violence, I invite them to take a look at the Netherlands and the case of Pim Fortuyn - or, on a less violent but still disturbing level, incidents like the hacking of Sarah Palin's email by liberal whizzkids. Guns are of course associated with the right more than with the left, but since it only takes one deranged person to commit political crimes, such averages are fairly meaningless - and in any case, politics are not so simple that you can neatly divide people into right-wing and left-wing. In that regard, Reynolds certainly has a point - when prominent left-wing politicians point accusing fingers at "the right" or at prominent symbols of the right, be it the Tea Party or Sarah Palin, they are only exacerbating matters. But all politicians left and right should, as I said, consider this an alarm sign about the tone in political discourse and the polarization in politics, and I get the impression that Reynolds is a bit too hasty in amalgamating the latter with the former. As were, incidentally, some people on this forum in the other thread, when reacting to Danu.
That said, it is admittedly possible but rather unlikely that the shooting was entirely unrelated to politics - i.e., that it was a coincidence that Giffords was the first target. Nobody but Loughner himself is responsible for his actions, but until we know more about his exact motivations, the assumption that there is a connection between his actions and the current political climate is rather more likely than the assumption that there is not. And really, even if it should turn out that there is in fact no connection at all, and the guy had personal reasons for targeting Giffords, the incident may still serve as a wake-up call to the nation that the polarization is reaching dangerous levels. Polarization, of course, being something that per definition involves two "poles". Keith Olbermann certainly doesn't have any room to talk. If some of the left think that their aggressive rhetoric can't possibly lead to violence, I invite them to take a look at the Netherlands and the case of Pim Fortuyn - or, on a less violent but still disturbing level, incidents like the hacking of Sarah Palin's email by liberal whizzkids. Guns are of course associated with the right more than with the left, but since it only takes one deranged person to commit political crimes, such averages are fairly meaningless - and in any case, politics are not so simple that you can neatly divide people into right-wing and left-wing. In that regard, Reynolds certainly has a point - when prominent left-wing politicians point accusing fingers at "the right" or at prominent symbols of the right, be it the Tea Party or Sarah Palin, they are only exacerbating matters. But all politicians left and right should, as I said, consider this an alarm sign about the tone in political discourse and the polarization in politics, and I get the impression that Reynolds is a bit too hasty in amalgamating the latter with the former. As were, incidentally, some people on this forum in the other thread, when reacting to Danu.
The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel
10/01/2011 04:02:29 AM
- 1509 Views
The NYT and liberal media have created a climate of stupidity
10/01/2011 05:47:29 PM
- 805 Views
Pot, Kettle. I think you two should discuss your color.
10/01/2011 09:26:05 PM
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nice try but no
10/01/2011 09:52:01 PM
- 732 Views
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means...."
10/01/2011 11:53:10 PM
- 984 Views
no you are just wearing Danny's blinders
11/01/2011 02:15:46 PM
- 831 Views
I try to steer clear of personal attacks.
11/01/2011 04:00:35 PM
- 745 Views
I try to make my point clear and I can't help if you skip them
11/01/2011 05:02:41 PM
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I didn't skip your points, I disputed them.
11/01/2011 05:51:10 PM
- 704 Views
you keep claiming both sides but you fail to offer any support
11/01/2011 06:00:41 PM
- 749 Views
Those who have accused specific people or groups will most likely have to backtrack and apologize.
10/01/2011 06:48:33 PM
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they will neither back track or apologize
10/01/2011 07:54:54 PM
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I don't really think the NYT has crossed that line I was talking about.
10/01/2011 09:54:36 PM
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not sure where you draw your line but this crosses mine
10/01/2011 10:11:04 PM
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Yes, well, Krugman is Krugman.
10/01/2011 10:25:31 PM
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You see to be arguing we should assume his political views were created by the politcal climate
11/01/2011 03:03:15 PM
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Indeed I am.
11/01/2011 06:18:56 PM
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it is not a wake up call to anything but left wing hestrics if their is no connection
11/01/2011 06:29:47 PM
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wasn't pim fortuyn a right winger though?
11/01/2011 04:33:26 PM
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Um, yes, that was pretty much the point I was making.
11/01/2011 06:22:06 PM
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Was there anyhting besides his stance on immigration to support the argument he was far right?
11/01/2011 06:31:05 PM
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Yes, though it's true that is the key part.
11/01/2011 07:11:13 PM
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can one posistion define you as being far right or far left?
11/01/2011 08:23:18 PM
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One single position? I wouldn't know, I can't think of any examples.
11/01/2011 08:41:58 PM
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... cut both ways because soulless opportunism knows no creed:
10/01/2011 09:46:31 PM
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They probably wouldn't say much because it really doesn't show much
10/01/2011 09:58:46 PM
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It really doesn't show that he has "left leanings".
10/01/2011 10:07:48 PM
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Well they call him a liberal and like it or not the Nazi movement was an extreme form of socialism
10/01/2011 10:22:04 PM
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Deep sigh.
10/01/2011 10:34:33 PM
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well we are talking about the US right and left not the European one
11/01/2011 01:11:30 PM
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Actually, I believe we were talking about the Nazi right or left.
11/01/2011 07:04:56 PM
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wow I really need to stop posting from my i-phone an you deserve a cookie for being able to follow
11/01/2011 07:48:35 PM
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A thousand times no.
11/01/2011 10:38:19 PM
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Bucnd and the Nazi part are and never were associtaed with what we consider American right politics
11/01/2011 11:34:46 PM
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What you do/n't "consider" part of the left/right is precisely the problem here.
12/01/2011 01:06:56 AM
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Liberal college professors didn't call the nazis far right, people who lived under Nazis did.
10/01/2011 10:56:33 PM
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If demoniizing your opponet makes your a fscist then you have made my argument for me
11/01/2011 01:25:51 PM
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In a word, no.
11/01/2011 04:29:36 PM
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really would you like to point to the right trying to use this to demonize the left?
11/01/2011 05:59:49 PM
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I already have, irrespective of your inability and/or refusal to see it.
11/01/2011 09:53:38 PM
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I don't know enough about the story to say much save that partisan finger pointing is wrong.
10/01/2011 10:30:51 PM
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First I don't even know who WorldNet is so I see no reasont o defend them
11/01/2011 01:36:44 PM
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For someone who doens't know who WND is you sure circled the wagons around them fast.
11/01/2011 04:21:40 PM
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No they are in no way the same
11/01/2011 05:06:43 PM
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They're precisely the same in tone.
11/01/2011 06:04:42 PM
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the only thing you have proven is that you have zero support for your argument
11/01/2011 06:36:14 PM
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Enough.
11/01/2011 10:18:59 PM
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your evidience is dribble and if that is the best you can I am sorry
11/01/2011 11:39:05 PM
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Liberals and Conservatives have rushed to frame Jared Lee Loughner’s motives...
10/01/2011 10:34:09 PM
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Which conseratives rushed to frame this for poltical gain?
11/01/2011 02:19:55 PM
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But that's how it always goes:"The animal is so treacherous; when it is attacked, it defends itself"
18/01/2011 03:15:35 PM
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