Worst case scenario: Officer stops a legal Mexican Immigrant with either a valid green card or a valid citzenship. Gentleman either does not have green card on his person, but somewhere in his vehicle (such as the glove bo. Racist cop in a bad mood refuses to let him do so, accuses him of going for a gun, tasers him, arrests him and hauls him off, and hopefully someone bothers to either let him get his ID or check the system before he gets too far along legal procedures.
While that sounds ridiculous, it's hardly like such a thing hasn't happened plenty of times before.
While that sounds ridiculous, it's hardly like such a thing hasn't happened plenty of times before.
We can go more ridiculous too. Worst Case scenario, cop pulls over person and beats them for kicks. Why someone would have their ID in the glovebox I don't know, but you usually keep reg and POI there anywhere so it's not likely to be an issue. "Officer, I just swung through a drive thru and my wallet fell under the front seat" is also reasonable and unlikely to cause much problems, or "I was at the beach, hence the shorts, my wallet's in my jeans in the back seat under that beach towel" is also unlikely to cause problems... note how these involve informing the officer of the situation before jerking for some object under your seat or in the back, like a pistol. Getting tasered is not for most people a truly awful thing, minus a heart condition, getting tasered is hardly an awful and traumatizing experience a rational person has a right to feel brutalized about, especially when they've done something to provoke it. IF an officer or a precinct starts developing a reputation for excessive tasering II is likely to appear in short order to check up, along with newspapers and elected officials. Bad eggs aren't stopped by laws anyway, anymore than any other criminal, so worrying over what some one might do on something we all consider wrong is mostly moot. We have laws against discrimination, yet some LEOs still act in a racist way, if it's done especially excessively or regularly they will get nabbed. In a thirty year career, pulling over say 3-4 people a day, you're talking about tens of thousands of such incidents, odds favor multiple incidents will occur that meet one or more of the following criteria:
A) Someone is a serious criminal, and may resist arrest in an extreme fashion ---> broken taillight on someone with a warrant on them for a felony, or drugs/dead body in the vehicle
B) Someone is a serious heavy hitter, and unprofessional behavior towards them, or anything that might be perceived that way, will result in consequences ----> congressmen, ACLU lawyer, wealthy or influential person.
C) Someone will later outright lie or grossly exaggerate your actions, and win or lose you have your career damaged.
Even if this happens 1% of the time that means roughly monthly, maybe weekly for a traffic cop or State Highway Patrol. Same thing for those showing up to domestic cases. So even those few bad eggs tend to have to be fairly careful, you might get away with tasering someone for kicks once, but when you have 3 or 4 taser complaints filed on you things differ. One gun shot draws extreme scrutiny, pretty much any use of force will. So little concern there, now for harassment? Always a problem but same thing, done enough and complained about enough that officer will get in trouble. One then has to ask 'how much harm has really be done?', LEOs are going to approach this new law knowing anytime they pull over a latino there is a massively higher chance of that person thinking discrimination is in play, whether it is or not, and will act accordingly, not just liars but people who are inclined to think 'It's cause I look mexican, racist bastard, I was only doing 10 over, here he goes, asking me for my ID like I was an illegal or something' whent he cop probably didn't know the race of the person he pulled over when he hit his flashers and asks everyone for ID. Whether the cop is racist or not, they know they are more likely to be interpreted that way and no one wants to get fired or investigated. I'd be genuinely surprised if any incidents of the bad sort happen with any regularity, let alone a epidemic of them, though I will not be if we hear of lots of cases.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
The Arizona immigration bill thingy
26/04/2010 12:57:20 AM
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what do you expect from one of the last states to accept MLK day?
26/04/2010 01:19:03 AM
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Yes, well, at least you are in the 27% of Americans that have a Passport.
26/04/2010 01:48:44 AM
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It will only take a few times getting their asses sued off for detaining U.S. citizens against...
26/04/2010 05:54:49 AM
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Yeah, I can't wait 'til a Latino state representative is arrested for looking illegal.
26/04/2010 07:26:13 AM
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or even better, a celebrity. I choose Antonia Banderas (when he has the funky beard hobo look) *NM*
26/04/2010 12:32:18 PM
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Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border
26/04/2010 06:19:24 AM
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Oh please! The immigration and drug problems don't justify bad legislation.
26/04/2010 07:02:54 AM
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Some thoughts
26/04/2010 06:42:02 AM
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It's not just outrageous; it's plain stupid. The latter is almost as offensive as the former.
26/04/2010 07:30:30 AM
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Sounds more like a bill to convince people they are doing something than to do something
26/04/2010 12:43:19 PM
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What I find interesting about all this...
26/04/2010 01:06:08 PM
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It is interesting to see how it contrasts with your take on it, being from a country with them
26/04/2010 02:11:18 PM
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but...
26/04/2010 01:49:13 PM
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I don't know about the green cards
26/04/2010 03:05:49 PM
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That last point doesn't really make any sense.
26/04/2010 03:20:19 PM
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my point was that the punishments for the similar crimes are so different.
26/04/2010 04:23:08 PM
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The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass
26/04/2010 02:59:11 PM
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The law will most likely not be overturned.
26/04/2010 03:13:24 PM
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The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM*
26/04/2010 03:20:45 PM
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The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM*
26/04/2010 06:53:32 PM
- 386 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM*
26/04/2010 08:33:04 PM
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The federal government will be collective ass but it may help to get the law off their overturned *NM*
27/04/2010 05:33:42 AM
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Their collective ass will be overturned but it may help to get the law off the federal government *NM*
27/04/2010 09:18:02 AM
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It's interesting how this sort of mirrors the Belgian issues.
26/04/2010 03:34:59 PM
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the "overrunning" of culture and language is exaggerated, imo
26/04/2010 04:34:56 PM
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I think the primary problem - in both cases - is language, yes.
26/04/2010 04:54:55 PM
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*shrug* I don't know. I just think that people are way too uptight about the issue
26/04/2010 05:02:30 PM
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the differences really are not that minor
28/04/2010 06:49:33 PM
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hmm, see
28/04/2010 07:10:42 PM
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I am from San Antonio I have always been able to buy burritos from my neighbors
28/04/2010 08:28:45 PM
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When I say relatively minor, it's because I'm thinking of those *other* assimilation problems here
28/04/2010 10:30:04 PM
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It should rattle anyone who lives in a democracy and who likes their way of life
28/04/2010 11:15:18 PM
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More power to the government! and We took that land fair and square! *NM*
26/04/2010 04:43:15 PM
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I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute
26/04/2010 09:05:21 PM
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Re: I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute
26/04/2010 11:48:14 PM
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Uhm, how is that "worst" case scenario?
27/04/2010 01:28:28 PM
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Worst reasonable case scenario
28/04/2010 06:48:29 PM
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Will the will of the people of Arizona be respected?
27/04/2010 12:12:46 AM
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That's funny...
27/04/2010 01:57:14 AM
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echo chamber much?
27/04/2010 04:14:53 PM
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there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights.
27/04/2010 05:19:29 PM
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Re: there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights.
28/04/2010 12:40:42 PM
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Also, the potential economic consequences of the law could be severe for Arizona.
27/04/2010 01:03:54 AM
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activist group liberal group claims it will cost money, what a shocker *NM*
27/04/2010 04:23:11 PM
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It will cost money
27/04/2010 09:16:31 PM
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but all of that ignores the long term savings
28/04/2010 03:24:50 PM
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it's less a matter of american tourism
28/04/2010 04:06:50 PM
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if they law is enforced it will decrease the number of illegals who go to Arizona
28/04/2010 06:35:26 PM
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I don't see any real long term savings coming from this.
28/04/2010 10:17:26 PM
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70% of the people in Arizona support the new law and 30% of the state is Hispanic
28/04/2010 10:51:08 PM
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real science?
28/04/2010 11:06:13 PM
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I linked to it further up the thread and you responded
28/04/2010 11:19:51 PM
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