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Worst reasonable case scenario Isaac Send a noteboard - 28/04/2010 06:48:29 PM
Worst case scenario: Officer stops a legal Mexican Immigrant with either a valid green card or a valid citzenship. Gentleman either does not have green card on his person, but somewhere in his vehicle (such as the glove box). Racist cop in a bad mood refuses to let him do so, accuses him of going for a gun, tasers him, arrests him and hauls him off, and hopefully someone bothers to either let him get his ID or check the system before he gets too far along legal procedures.

While that sounds ridiculous, it's hardly like such a thing hasn't happened plenty of times before.


We can go more ridiculous too. Worst Case scenario, cop pulls over person and beats them for kicks. Why someone would have their ID in the glovebox I don't know, but you usually keep reg and POI there anywhere so it's not likely to be an issue. "Officer, I just swung through a drive thru and my wallet fell under the front seat" is also reasonable and unlikely to cause much problems, or "I was at the beach, hence the shorts, my wallet's in my jeans in the back seat under that beach towel" is also unlikely to cause problems... note how these involve informing the officer of the situation before jerking for some object under your seat or in the back, like a pistol. Getting tasered is not for most people a truly awful thing, minus a heart condition, getting tasered is hardly an awful and traumatizing experience a rational person has a right to feel brutalized about, especially when they've done something to provoke it. IF an officer or a precinct starts developing a reputation for excessive tasering II is likely to appear in short order to check up, along with newspapers and elected officials. Bad eggs aren't stopped by laws anyway, anymore than any other criminal, so worrying over what some one might do on something we all consider wrong is mostly moot. We have laws against discrimination, yet some LEOs still act in a racist way, if it's done especially excessively or regularly they will get nabbed. In a thirty year career, pulling over say 3-4 people a day, you're talking about tens of thousands of such incidents, odds favor multiple incidents will occur that meet one or more of the following criteria:

A) Someone is a serious criminal, and may resist arrest in an extreme fashion ---> broken taillight on someone with a warrant on them for a felony, or drugs/dead body in the vehicle

B) Someone is a serious heavy hitter, and unprofessional behavior towards them, or anything that might be perceived that way, will result in consequences ----> congressmen, ACLU lawyer, wealthy or influential person.

C) Someone will later outright lie or grossly exaggerate your actions, and win or lose you have your career damaged.

Even if this happens 1% of the time that means roughly monthly, maybe weekly for a traffic cop or State Highway Patrol. Same thing for those showing up to domestic cases. So even those few bad eggs tend to have to be fairly careful, you might get away with tasering someone for kicks once, but when you have 3 or 4 taser complaints filed on you things differ. One gun shot draws extreme scrutiny, pretty much any use of force will. So little concern there, now for harassment? Always a problem but same thing, done enough and complained about enough that officer will get in trouble. One then has to ask 'how much harm has really be done?', LEOs are going to approach this new law knowing anytime they pull over a latino there is a massively higher chance of that person thinking discrimination is in play, whether it is or not, and will act accordingly, not just liars but people who are inclined to think 'It's cause I look mexican, racist bastard, I was only doing 10 over, here he goes, asking me for my ID like I was an illegal or something' whent he cop probably didn't know the race of the person he pulled over when he hit his flashers and asks everyone for ID. Whether the cop is racist or not, they know they are more likely to be interpreted that way and no one wants to get fired or investigated. I'd be genuinely surprised if any incidents of the bad sort happen with any regularity, let alone a epidemic of them, though I will not be if we hear of lots of cases.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
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The Arizona immigration bill thingy - 26/04/2010 12:57:20 AM 2032 Views
Such a wrongheaded law. - 26/04/2010 02:25:10 AM 859 Views
A lot of stuff makes me go "whuh?" legally. - 26/04/2010 03:38:12 AM 746 Views
Sounds like apartheid in SA... - 26/04/2010 02:36:52 AM 906 Views
As bad as the law is, that's an ignorant statement. *NM* - 26/04/2010 02:38:16 AM 431 Views
Re: Sounds like apartheid in SA... - 26/04/2010 05:13:17 AM 1009 Views
It shows that Arizona is already lost - 26/04/2010 03:09:24 AM 900 Views
Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border - 26/04/2010 06:19:24 AM 866 Views
Oh please! The immigration and drug problems don't justify bad legislation. - 26/04/2010 07:02:54 AM 878 Views
I do. - 26/04/2010 07:11:10 AM 1035 Views
Re: I do. - 26/04/2010 07:45:21 AM 858 Views
Yeah, I saw an interview with a former U.S. Drug Czar - 26/04/2010 06:35:10 PM 829 Views
Okay, I grew up in Arizona. - 26/04/2010 12:41:21 PM 1052 Views
Re: Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border - 26/04/2010 03:58:37 PM 928 Views
looks like somebody doesn't quite get the point - 29/04/2010 06:18:58 AM 1510 Views
Some thoughts - 26/04/2010 06:42:02 AM 961 Views
I wouldn't worry to much laws like that - 26/04/2010 03:03:16 PM 844 Views
patriot act gives that to any federal law enforcement officer - 29/04/2010 06:13:38 AM 940 Views
Re: Some thoughts - 26/04/2010 04:04:55 PM 838 Views
Sounds more like a bill to convince people they are doing something than to do something - 26/04/2010 12:43:19 PM 840 Views
What I find interesting about all this... - 26/04/2010 01:06:08 PM 936 Views
well you see, that IS part of the problem - 26/04/2010 01:13:19 PM 934 Views
Re: What I find interesting about all this... - 26/04/2010 03:52:09 PM 873 Views
Perhaps I'm wrong, but... - 26/04/2010 01:49:13 PM 829 Views
I don't know about the green cards - 26/04/2010 03:05:49 PM 869 Views
That last point doesn't really make any sense. - 26/04/2010 03:20:19 PM 857 Views
my point was that the punishments for the similar crimes are so different. - 26/04/2010 04:23:08 PM 805 Views
Hey, I think it's an appalling law. - 27/04/2010 02:24:30 PM 936 Views
Re: Perhaps I'm wrong, but... - 26/04/2010 03:41:47 PM 781 Views
The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass - 26/04/2010 02:59:11 PM 903 Views
The law will most likely not be overturned. - 26/04/2010 03:13:24 PM 842 Views
I meant by the courts - 27/04/2010 03:49:11 PM 736 Views
ah well. that'd be nice, then. *NM* - 27/04/2010 05:14:31 PM 405 Views
It's interesting how this sort of mirrors the Belgian issues. - 26/04/2010 03:34:59 PM 849 Views
the "overrunning" of culture and language is exaggerated, imo - 26/04/2010 04:34:56 PM 865 Views
I think the primary problem - in both cases - is language, yes. - 26/04/2010 04:54:55 PM 884 Views
*shrug* I don't know. I just think that people are way too uptight about the issue - 26/04/2010 05:02:30 PM 816 Views
I agree with you - 26/04/2010 05:26:47 PM 832 Views
that is also true - 26/04/2010 05:44:40 PM 781 Views
There is a difference between assimilating and being assimilated - 27/04/2010 04:09:19 PM 854 Views
the differences really are not that minor - 28/04/2010 06:49:33 PM 866 Views
hmm, see - 28/04/2010 07:10:42 PM 762 Views
I am from San Antonio I have always been able to buy burritos from my neighbors - 28/04/2010 08:28:45 PM 787 Views
mmmm Tamale. - 28/04/2010 08:53:13 PM 797 Views
a minor point.... - 29/04/2010 06:30:22 AM 884 Views
I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute - 26/04/2010 09:05:21 PM 1076 Views
Re: I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute - 26/04/2010 11:48:14 PM 1172 Views
you are correct - 29/04/2010 06:39:29 AM 1212 Views
Uhm, how is that "worst" case scenario? - 27/04/2010 01:28:28 PM 825 Views
Worst reasonable case scenario - 28/04/2010 06:48:29 PM 763 Views
Will the will of the people of Arizona be respected? - 27/04/2010 12:12:46 AM 930 Views
That's funny... - 27/04/2010 01:57:14 AM 1139 Views
echo chamber much? - 27/04/2010 04:14:53 PM 893 Views
there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. - 27/04/2010 05:19:29 PM 775 Views
Re: there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights. - 28/04/2010 12:40:42 PM 834 Views
Those incidents are horrible - 28/04/2010 01:07:39 PM 806 Views
Re: That's funny... - 28/04/2010 12:30:41 PM 845 Views
And this law will not give them what they want - 28/04/2010 01:12:50 PM 853 Views
Also, the potential economic consequences of the law could be severe for Arizona. - 27/04/2010 01:03:54 AM 868 Views
now that's just crazy talk. - 27/04/2010 01:58:42 AM 796 Views
activist group liberal group claims it will cost money, what a shocker *NM* - 27/04/2010 04:23:11 PM 374 Views
It will cost money - 27/04/2010 09:16:31 PM 846 Views
but all of that ignores the long term savings - 28/04/2010 03:24:50 PM 777 Views
it's less a matter of american tourism - 28/04/2010 04:06:50 PM 827 Views
if they law is enforced it will decrease the number of illegals who go to Arizona - 28/04/2010 06:35:26 PM 893 Views
I will admit - 28/04/2010 07:01:55 PM 801 Views
there have always been bad cops and there always will be - 28/04/2010 08:53:50 PM 771 Views
I don't see any real long term savings coming from this. - 28/04/2010 10:17:26 PM 885 Views
70% of the people in Arizona support the new law and 30% of the state is Hispanic - 28/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 1042 Views
real science? - 28/04/2010 11:06:13 PM 818 Views
I linked to it further up the thread and you responded - 28/04/2010 11:19:51 PM 801 Views
ah, I think I missed it for some reason - 29/04/2010 12:18:13 AM 878 Views
who has time to read all of this crap *NM* - 29/04/2010 04:26:11 AM 353 Views
I'm familiar with the Rasmussen poll - 28/04/2010 11:31:30 PM 1121 Views
Here's Judge Napolitano's response to this - 27/04/2010 02:19:49 PM 815 Views

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