Interesting but flawed reasoning. I have read all of the Dune books, including the ones that were written/completed by his son. Apparently I ahve also read the ones you have much more ofter. Arakis is one of the major characters of the first book (in later books you discover that the planet was not the character instead it is the worms), but ecology and enrinmental activism is not one of the major themes. It is at best a side effect. The major themes of Dune are all religious, moral, and mercantile.
While I'm not going to deny what occurs in latter novels, my focus is on trying to recreate my reading experience both in 2001 and in 2010 with the first book alone. I'll doubtless will get to issues you mention here in the other reviews. However, I will note that for the first novel, there is a heavy referencing of the influences that environment (and this encompasses not just ecology, but also human social environments) has on shaping religious/moral beliefs. The mercantile part I consider to be minor to the other two.
Additionally, there is no commentary about homosexuallity in the novel. BH is simply, intentionally, displayed as possessing the most offensive and disgusting traits imaginable. You would be just as accurate to attempt to fabricate some sort of parrallel between obese people and sexual deviancy in the novel.
It's there, just in passing and euphemisms. Considering that I was pointing out that Herbert's conflation of pedophilia and homosexuality in the person of the main villain may be offensive to modern-day readers (it only raised a metaphorical eyebrow for me, since I'm straight), it was worth a passing mention, especially since the attitude implied within such a casual connection is related to the more important issue of how the author portrays female characters in this setting.
You are making the error that entirely too many reviewers have and will do. Attempting to find themes in prose that do not exist because the author did not write them. Too many reviewer tripple-think into wonderful themes and messages by grabbing various images and actions and weaving them into a coherant "message" that simply does not exist, because the author was not writing them.
Before I can consider your point, what "errors" besides disagreeing with the passing comments on a few issues do you think I made? Because your statements really don't provide anything in the way of supporting your stances. At least I did provide some references to the novel itself
There is no emviromental activism as we know it today in the novels, there is only an effort to convert a natural desert into airiable land. There is no statement on homosexuallity, there is simply an incredibly evil sadistic individual who partakes in every manner of diviant behavior imaginable, becasue he can.
Interesting viewpoint, considering it runs counter to what I noted about the influence the novel had on others, as well as what I said above about the Baron's sexuality. But tell me, are you making a connection between homosexuality and "deviant behavior" here? Because your comments would seem to suggest so.
If you want to investigate the thems, investigate the ones the authro wrote about: Slavery, Religion, Orthodoxy (morallity, i.e "The Greater Good", Polotics (money=power, rule by fear vs loyalty). There is plenty to discuss, without creating new themes form whole cloth to further ones oown adgendas and biases. Alas, entirely too many reviewers and critics desire this, instead of investigating and discussing wghat teh auther actually intends.
Several of those themes doubtless will be addressed in future reviews of the series. And the "creating new themes whole cloth" wasn't my intent nor what I did; I made passing comments with references to the texts themselves, without those being the focus of the commentary.
And perhaps I subscribe to the Author is Dead school of thought? ' />
Though intelectually flawed, your piece is well written and supported by the passages you selected, kudos.
Hey, I like the challenges to what I wrote, by the way, even if I disagree with them
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within)
16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM
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Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM
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Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM
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I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM
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Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
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Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM
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Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
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That was most of my issue.
21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM
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Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM
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Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM*
21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM
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A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM
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Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM
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Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
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Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM
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Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
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Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM
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Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM
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Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM
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People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book
16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM
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Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM*
16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM
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I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune
16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM
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There are several points to the book/series
17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM
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Everyone get something different from a book
19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM
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I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series
20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM
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I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts
17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM
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Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps
18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM
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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM
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I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM*
22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM
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Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM
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Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM
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I didn't see that in Alia
21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
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There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers)
22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM
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OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first
22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM
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One of my favorite series!
21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
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I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM
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Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM
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Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM
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Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
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