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Thank you. nossy Send a noteboard - 29/01/2012 11:10:13 PM
I agree with your distinction between him being racist and there being racist elements in the book; the author of that article does not. Or perhaps she does, and wouldn't even be wasting her time on writing an article if she thought Tolkien was an actual racist in the evident sense of the word.

Tolkien does include other races, though. The non-white men get very little attention - they fight on the evil side, though, even if Sam makes his famous comment at one point about how they are just ordinary people like them. But all the orcs and goblins...

You may be right about the orcs/goblins; we can't know. I, however, always thought of them as corrupted beings, much the same way angels were supposedly corrupted down into demons and devils - a process that takes them from pearly-shininess to grody, slimy darkness. Orcs/goblins don't give me racist feelings at all. I do agree about the men on Sauron's side, and almost mentioned that. Just because it is a historical connection (the main theme he seems to have featured in his novels) to centuries-long history between Europeans and more exotic races, doesn't mean it isn't racist in tone.

She also quotes a comment by Tolkien comparing his Dwarves to Jews, based on their being obsessed by gold and riches - which is indeed anti-semitism of a kind that would be normal in an author of a century earlier, but not so much post-WW2. Not that the Dwarves are depicted as bad guys (despite the blog author's attempt to suggest so by quoting the most negative passage about them, from early on in The Hobbit), but still.

I have never heard that, but I would say that it seems we're in that narrow area between not being politically correct and getting into actual racism. It would be much worse if he had turned the dwarves into evil characters, but they certainly are not, and he didn't repeatedly connect them to other Jewish stereotypes, unless I'm simply not aware of what/how. Yet again, it seems that he was less careful about using stereotypical definitions, not necessarily trying to make a racist statement - unless we're counting positive racism? "Hey, dwarves are Jews, BUT look how much we love them!"

She doesn't find anything more to complain about concerning Galadriel than that she is "placed on a pedestal". About Eowyn, she's more convincing... the end of that storyline, after all, is that Eowyn does go back to doing what she's supposed to do, and looks back at her desire to break free as being a silly thing.

Unfortunately, I feel like I look like I'm making excuses, but I am just telling you how I've interpreted these things while reading. I always thought Eowyn was stupidly impetuous when she didn't listen to Theoden telling her how much the people needed her. I thought that at the end, she lost her crush and met someone she could actually love (rather than being married off for convenience or ties) and realized that great people (she is more than just a woman) have certain responsibilities. It always seemed more like "growing up" to me than falling back into a "place." So anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows.
This message last edited by nossy on 29/01/2012 at 11:14:11 PM
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The racist elements in Tolkien's writing - 29/01/2012 01:31:02 PM 2493 Views
She has some points, of course. - 29/01/2012 02:25:32 PM 1273 Views
Quite a few points - 29/01/2012 02:40:45 PM 1366 Views
Re: Quite a few points - 29/01/2012 04:59:11 PM 1130 Views
Mostly agreed with the article, but thought she undermined herself with her own racism. - 29/01/2012 02:50:11 PM 1339 Views
I wish I could agree with you, but I can't in full - 29/01/2012 02:58:05 PM 1333 Views
I'm not bothered by the tone. Annoyance is justified. - 29/01/2012 03:03:07 PM 1271 Views
Re: I wish I could agree with you, but I can't in full - 30/01/2012 02:11:07 PM 1284 Views
Do you really believe that? - 30/01/2012 02:44:19 PM 1348 Views
Just read your Twitter convo... nice try, but looks like wasted effort. *NM* - 29/01/2012 10:37:08 PM 578 Views
Yes. - 29/01/2012 10:41:15 PM 1019 Views
Oh, also: - 29/01/2012 03:07:03 PM 1085 Views
Well, I'll be honest. - 29/01/2012 10:34:46 PM 1216 Views
Let me try to summarize some of her points with the invective filtered out, then. - 29/01/2012 10:48:24 PM 1409 Views
Thank you. - 29/01/2012 11:10:13 PM 1441 Views
What the hell, might as well go and play devil's advocate, right? - 30/01/2012 04:50:30 PM 1346 Views
I expected that. - 30/01/2012 05:39:59 PM 1245 Views
Of course you did. I'm predictable that way. - 30/01/2012 10:28:10 PM 1233 Views
Re: Of course you did. I'm predictable that way. - 31/01/2012 12:39:46 AM 1132 Views
Re: Of course you did. I'm predictable that way. - 31/01/2012 08:38:46 PM 1176 Views
I <3 you, but there are several very key things we are not going to agree on. - 31/01/2012 10:02:22 PM 1597 Views
Oh. - 31/01/2012 11:07:52 PM 1240 Views
- 01/02/2012 12:17:59 AM 1349 Views
Hmm? - 31/01/2012 10:10:22 PM 1166 Views
Yeah. I got to reading Encyclopedia of Arda just now, and it told me the same thing. - 31/01/2012 10:35:54 PM 1089 Views
As a sort of group answer (I've been mostly absent from forums the past two days) - 31/01/2012 10:45:55 PM 1430 Views
I don't mind if you tell me I'm out of line here, but - 31/01/2012 11:55:04 PM 1271 Views
I'm rarely ever offended - 01/02/2012 01:54:58 AM 1457 Views
She was referring specifically to the Twitter "conversation" I had with the blogger. - 01/02/2012 09:05:28 AM 1240 Views
Yes. - 01/02/2012 10:47:22 AM 1370 Views
It makes me wonder what she thinks is happening in Zimbabwe, for example. - 01/02/2012 11:13:11 AM 1406 Views
I've been thinking about that. - 01/02/2012 11:29:18 AM 1196 Views
Re: I've been thinking about that. - 01/02/2012 11:40:11 AM 1466 Views
We're nuts. - 01/02/2012 03:09:15 PM 1202 Views
I know that - 01/02/2012 11:15:48 AM 1260 Views
That blog post was mostly good, but the exception is a rather large one. - 01/02/2012 08:35:57 PM 1118 Views
Do you mean exception*S*? - 02/02/2012 04:27:03 AM 1191 Views
The Hobbit came out in 1937. - 30/01/2012 01:35:45 AM 1165 Views
She hates Tolkien's writings to begin with ... - 30/01/2012 06:34:29 AM 1307 Views
The tone of the article is massively annoying - 30/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 1344 Views
I laughed while reading it - 30/01/2012 04:30:50 PM 1213 Views

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