She did that because the Black Ajah was her personal boogeyman
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 20/03/2010 09:58:54 AM
For all her love of the status quo, Siuan showed no inclination to hold back or force Rand in any way at all. That's what got her deposed, remember?
People forget... she loved the status quo, but she had sense enough to send three Accepted she trusted after Black sisters so that Rand would not be captured. While it would have been infinitely better if she used the Oath Rod on some sisters and sent them to deal with the BA, what she did showed that she was ready to bend rules and traditions for the DR. The picture isn't as bleak as you paint it.
I doubt any of the wondergirls would have been motivated to remove Siuan. Even Nynaeve respected her too much.
Had Siuan actively started hampering Rand, then you have a case. But I see nothing which points to that. She might have been naive enough to want the world to be totally unharmed, but she never showed signs of letting that make her oppose Rand or control him (a la Elaida).
People forget... she loved the status quo, but she had sense enough to send three Accepted she trusted after Black sisters so that Rand would not be captured. While it would have been infinitely better if she used the Oath Rod on some sisters and sent them to deal with the BA, what she did showed that she was ready to bend rules and traditions for the DR. The picture isn't as bleak as you paint it.
I doubt any of the wondergirls would have been motivated to remove Siuan. Even Nynaeve respected her too much.
Had Siuan actively started hampering Rand, then you have a case. But I see nothing which points to that. She might have been naive enough to want the world to be totally unharmed, but she never showed signs of letting that make her oppose Rand or control him (a la Elaida).
She got deposed before he ever got going. She wanted to be in control of him, and was in agreement with the Reds on that issue. In fact she was surprised, because she automatically thinks of them as the enemy and expects them to oppose anything she wants (unlike Rand, who was willing to entertain the idea that they could be brought around), before she realized that her position was a logical one for the Red Ajah.
She was deposed for keeping secrets from the Hall, NOT for failure to get control of Rand, or if that was a charge, that was one of the laughable ones the Salidar group thought were unjust (because they could not conceive of letting Rand run free either, and did not believe it of Siuan).
In Fal Dara Moiraine kept things from her because she mistrusted Siuan's judgment, claiming that she could not accept the necessary damage and losses ("The world will burn no matter what we do - Siuan could never see that" - or something to that effect) that would come with the Dragon Reborn. Moiraine had to duck away from Siuan in order to go study with Vandene & Adeleas, and had to present her less-control plan to Siuan as a fait accompli.
Siuan was the one who was appalled at Rand going after Callandor because she KNEW the man she hadn't seen in an entire year was "not ready yet!" Siuan was the one figuring out where Rand had disappeared to after Tear, and telling the other Aes Sedai about it so they could get their hooks back into him. She was the one who apparently had a running argument going with Nynaeve and Elayne over how trustworthy he was. She was the one who said "We can't let him get too powerful" because then he might not need the Aes Sedai. To Siuan, Aes Sedai being in control was more important than the Dragon Reborn having the power to do what he needed to. She was the one who tried to have Min spy on Rand and report to her secret agents.
Don't dare try to argue that Siuan wanted anything other than to control Rand. No matter how benevolent or selfless her motivation, she still wanted the same thing as Elaida and every other Aes Sedai (or at least those who sat on their asses in the Tower with their heads in the sand, only venturing into the real world to dablle their fingers in national affairs and screw up ordinary people's lives by withholding protection from bandits or flooding rivers and messing up the weather). Her insane departures from normal practices and willingness to endanger "girls" to whom she had a responsibility to protect and train properly was motivated because the Black Ajah scared her a lot when she first was raised to the shawl, and she got a deer-in-the-headlights mindset towards them.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Did the characters come too easily to power?
16/03/2010 11:37:31 PM
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Yes, and for Rand at least IMO, playing nice has cost dearly
17/03/2010 04:59:32 AM
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Not necessarily
18/03/2010 03:17:10 PM
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Good post.
27/03/2010 01:43:24 PM
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Unfortunately, no.
31/03/2010 10:23:58 AM
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Re: Unfortunately, no.
02/04/2010 07:54:10 AM
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All the way through, up to ripping her self-delusional assessments of her "achievements" in KoD
02/04/2010 09:27:54 PM
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TLDR *NM*
17/03/2010 05:43:01 AM
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Cmon ppl pls reply to this, Cannoli has spent such a long time writing it.... I couldn't be bothered *NM*
17/03/2010 10:31:38 AM
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Rand is at the perfect position after TGS for his downfall...
17/03/2010 02:49:55 PM
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Re: Rand is at the perfect position after TGS for his downfall...
17/03/2010 06:15:18 PM
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I usually read Cannoli's epic-length posts...
17/03/2010 04:08:33 PM
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Ha! Imagine if I didn't double-space the paragraphs. That is a fairly new practice on my part. *NM*
18/03/2010 03:36:13 PM
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I'd suggest you had more paragraphs......with a lot of spacing..... *NM*
19/03/2010 04:42:05 AM
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Sheesh, you people are babies. I read it. Some good points.
17/03/2010 05:35:08 PM
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Re: Sheesh, you people are babies. I read it. Some good points.
17/03/2010 10:08:34 PM
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Oh and I forgot to add
18/03/2010 01:41:28 AM
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I would say those cases are both examples of aknowledging their own limitations and priorities
18/03/2010 04:02:13 PM
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Re: Did the characters come too easily to power?
17/03/2010 06:10:22 PM
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I was more focussed on the cost of GETTING power, not the prices of discharging it responsibly
18/03/2010 04:27:18 PM
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While most of this is true...
19/03/2010 06:47:19 AM
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Siuan's failure to properly help Rand should motivate Egwene to overthrow...oh, right. Egwene.
19/03/2010 11:52:10 PM
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What do you mean by "properly"?
20/03/2010 07:57:26 AM
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She did that because the Black Ajah was her personal boogeyman
20/03/2010 09:58:54 AM
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Re: The To'Raken
06/04/2010 06:00:07 AM
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