...I also think that part of RJ's motivation in making their rise to power so "easy" has to do with their ages and lack of experience.
To take a simple example... Egwene in the Tower under Siuan. The first and most logical question is, why would she even begin to work against Siuan? As you said, it is easy for an objective reader to point out the flaws in Siuan's reign and realize that her style of doing things would not suffice in this kind of changing world.
But where would an eighteen year old village girl with no political experience even begin to find the requisite foresight and wisdom needed to make such a discovery? Even if she did, imagine how hard it would be for her to find any allies at all. Would even Nynaeve and Elayne have supported her if she decided one day to depose Siuan? Would it have seemed realistic if she succeeded?
There are two alternatives. RJ could have made Siuan a viscous dictator, unscrupulous and unpopular. That would at least explain the motivation for someone like Egwene to decide to overthrow her, and allow for a following. But if such were the case, one would have to wonder why exactly the other "good" Aes Sedai never bothered to try depose her before.
Or, RJ could have had someone like Cadsuane, older, wiser and with a perspective that is much broader because of her long life lived in the world, come in to depose Siuan. From a person of such maturity, actions like deposing a relatively harmless person like Siuan would seem a lot more believable.
The issue then would have been one of sympathy. Even with an undeniably "just" cause like deposing Elaida, Egwene gets a lot of grief. You yourself have on countless occasions classified her motives as power hunger and self aggrandizement. It would have been even tougher to make a character like Cadsuane sympathetic while she went about systematically destroying the status quo for the "greater good". How much easier to accuse such a person of megalomania!
I think RJ grappled with this very issue. The Dragon Reborn was to be a retired soldier. Maybe the new Amyrlin was to be a retired Sister? In both cases, the characters would have been mature, may have taken action against people who, while not evil, were too wedded to the status quo. But without seeing how adherence to the status quo was dangerous and harmful, would the vast majority of the readers appreciated and cheered for the actions of the mature versions of Rand and Egwene? I don't think so...
But there's one thing... what if, instead of just one book, Rand and Egwene had half the series left to carry out their roles as absolute leaders whom everyone accepted? Because we can be certain that while these characters (and Elayne, Perrin, Tuon, etc. as well) got to their current status of power relatively easily, from now on, what they seek to do will have repercussions.
When Elayne calls for the creation of a large army for TG, when Egwene makes it compulsory for all sisters to laren how to fight, when Rand decides to tackle the Seanchan again... in all these instances, the characters will not be able to fall back on any "excuse" to justify any morally questionable action they take. Elayne and Egwene will no longer be in the midst of civil wars. Rand will no longer be in severe stress induced by his situation. What they do now will be on their own heads, their first actions as full and complete leaders of their spheres.
Like you, I hope they face tough choices that they cannot sidestep.
To take a simple example... Egwene in the Tower under Siuan. The first and most logical question is, why would she even begin to work against Siuan? As you said, it is easy for an objective reader to point out the flaws in Siuan's reign and realize that her style of doing things would not suffice in this kind of changing world.
But where would an eighteen year old village girl with no political experience even begin to find the requisite foresight and wisdom needed to make such a discovery? Even if she did, imagine how hard it would be for her to find any allies at all. Would even Nynaeve and Elayne have supported her if she decided one day to depose Siuan? Would it have seemed realistic if she succeeded?
There are two alternatives. RJ could have made Siuan a viscous dictator, unscrupulous and unpopular. That would at least explain the motivation for someone like Egwene to decide to overthrow her, and allow for a following. But if such were the case, one would have to wonder why exactly the other "good" Aes Sedai never bothered to try depose her before.
Or, RJ could have had someone like Cadsuane, older, wiser and with a perspective that is much broader because of her long life lived in the world, come in to depose Siuan. From a person of such maturity, actions like deposing a relatively harmless person like Siuan would seem a lot more believable.
The issue then would have been one of sympathy. Even with an undeniably "just" cause like deposing Elaida, Egwene gets a lot of grief. You yourself have on countless occasions classified her motives as power hunger and self aggrandizement. It would have been even tougher to make a character like Cadsuane sympathetic while she went about systematically destroying the status quo for the "greater good". How much easier to accuse such a person of megalomania!
I think RJ grappled with this very issue. The Dragon Reborn was to be a retired soldier. Maybe the new Amyrlin was to be a retired Sister? In both cases, the characters would have been mature, may have taken action against people who, while not evil, were too wedded to the status quo. But without seeing how adherence to the status quo was dangerous and harmful, would the vast majority of the readers appreciated and cheered for the actions of the mature versions of Rand and Egwene? I don't think so...
But there's one thing... what if, instead of just one book, Rand and Egwene had half the series left to carry out their roles as absolute leaders whom everyone accepted? Because we can be certain that while these characters (and Elayne, Perrin, Tuon, etc. as well) got to their current status of power relatively easily, from now on, what they seek to do will have repercussions.
When Elayne calls for the creation of a large army for TG, when Egwene makes it compulsory for all sisters to laren how to fight, when Rand decides to tackle the Seanchan again... in all these instances, the characters will not be able to fall back on any "excuse" to justify any morally questionable action they take. Elayne and Egwene will no longer be in the midst of civil wars. Rand will no longer be in severe stress induced by his situation. What they do now will be on their own heads, their first actions as full and complete leaders of their spheres.
Like you, I hope they face tough choices that they cannot sidestep.
Did the characters come too easily to power?
16/03/2010 11:37:31 PM
- 1853 Views
Yes, and for Rand at least IMO, playing nice has cost dearly
17/03/2010 04:59:32 AM
- 890 Views
Not necessarily
18/03/2010 03:17:10 PM
- 837 Views
Good post.
27/03/2010 01:43:24 PM
- 703 Views
Unfortunately, no.
31/03/2010 10:23:58 AM
- 815 Views
Re: Unfortunately, no.
02/04/2010 07:54:10 AM
- 638 Views
All the way through, up to ripping her self-delusional assessments of her "achievements" in KoD
02/04/2010 09:27:54 PM
- 724 Views
TLDR *NM*
17/03/2010 05:43:01 AM
- 560 Views
Cmon ppl pls reply to this, Cannoli has spent such a long time writing it.... I couldn't be bothered *NM*
17/03/2010 10:31:38 AM
- 360 Views
Rand is at the perfect position after TGS for his downfall...
17/03/2010 02:49:55 PM
- 796 Views
Re: Rand is at the perfect position after TGS for his downfall...
17/03/2010 06:15:18 PM
- 752 Views
I usually read Cannoli's epic-length posts...
17/03/2010 04:08:33 PM
- 813 Views
Ha! Imagine if I didn't double-space the paragraphs. That is a fairly new practice on my part. *NM*
18/03/2010 03:36:13 PM
- 399 Views
I'd suggest you had more paragraphs......with a lot of spacing..... *NM*
19/03/2010 04:42:05 AM
- 413 Views
Sheesh, you people are babies. I read it. Some good points.
17/03/2010 05:35:08 PM
- 766 Views
Re: Sheesh, you people are babies. I read it. Some good points.
17/03/2010 10:08:34 PM
- 909 Views
Oh and I forgot to add
18/03/2010 01:41:28 AM
- 798 Views
I would say those cases are both examples of aknowledging their own limitations and priorities
18/03/2010 04:02:13 PM
- 853 Views
Re: Did the characters come too easily to power?
17/03/2010 06:10:22 PM
- 781 Views
I was more focussed on the cost of GETTING power, not the prices of discharging it responsibly
18/03/2010 04:27:18 PM
- 849 Views
While most of this is true...
19/03/2010 06:47:19 AM
- 684 Views
Siuan's failure to properly help Rand should motivate Egwene to overthrow...oh, right. Egwene.
19/03/2010 11:52:10 PM
- 731 Views
Re: The To'Raken
06/04/2010 06:00:07 AM
- 743 Views