Active Users:344 Time:19/04/2025 05:39:08 AM
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman Send a noteboard - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM
That would imply the Creator created Shai'tan's past, which means that he created and controlled Shai'tan.


I never said he created the past (as in the events themselves). I merely said he created time with an infinite past. He created the necessary time for the events to happen.

Think of it this way.
The Universe is a huge school wall on which a mural is about to be painted. The children about to paint them represent the souls or people who live out their lives (including other entities with free will). The painting they make is history. Assume they are making a painting of a story so that it is to be read from left to right. In this case moving along the wall represents moving through time, the left side representing the past, the right future.
Now, the Creator is the guy who builds the wall (in that the Creator makes time and space). If you stretch my analogy you have to assume he "makes the children" as well , but that's beside the point. Now the guy who builds the wall, builds it in both directions (assume the wall is infinitely long in both directions) and leaves space for the children to fill it in.
Similarly when the Creator makes time, he creates it so that their is an infinite past, in which he leaves the "children, i.e. souls etc. to fill it in. That does not mean he controls them.
If you are wondering where the DO fits into this, think of him as a really strong superhuman child who bullies everyone else, but still has to do the painting. Because he too is trapped within time (he has to paint the picture, i.e. make stuff happen through time). The wall builder does not control the bully child.

Think of it another way if its easier to understand. The wheel is turning through all the ages right? If there was a moment of creation that began the turning of the wheel, then what would have happened? Presumably, the cosmos would have formed, the first humans would have come up and started to build etc. Now when the wheel completes turning one full revolution (7 ages) then it has to come back to this point. So what? does the world get recreated every 7 ages?????
But regardless of this way of analysing it, my earlier logic still stands.

So to recap,

The Creator, can create time. He creates time so that there is an infinite past. In that infinite past events (such as the DO trying to escape) happen independent of the creator. The creator doesn't make them happen, or "write" their history or "control" events, he merely provides the necessary time for them to happen (maybe in an infinite past).Remember he is OUTSIDE of time. For him, there is no concept of time, hence no "moment" of creation.
Write drunk, revise sober.*MySmiley*
This message last edited by car'a'aman on 10/03/2010 at 01:03:58 PM
Reply to message
Ishamael's nature - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1764 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 789 Views
Sisyphus *NM* - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 262 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 801 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 635 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 657 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 555 Views
Maybe - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 618 Views
Crap - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 611 Views
I think the averages are averages. - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 537 Views
Re: Crap - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 511 Views
Re: Crap - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 481 Views
I love IQ tests. - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 480 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 569 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 518 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 673 Views
I doubt that. - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 491 Views
Re: I doubt that. - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 477 Views
Yep, I agree. - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 570 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 558 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 611 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 551 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 531 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 495 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 479 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 878 Views
Nice - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 546 Views
Impressive - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 540 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 540 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 485 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 483 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 468 Views
Because there is a Creator. - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 462 Views
faulty assumptions - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 467 Views
Impossible. - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 462 Views
maybe an analogy will help - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 881 Views
But therein lies the problem. - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 461 Views
your own argument is self defeating - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 489 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 468 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 217 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 206 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 548 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 613 Views

Reply to Message