Just because we don't know all their names, doesn't mean their effectiveness on the Pattern was less
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 03/09/2009 03:19:41 PM
For example, Latra Posae Decume's name was forgotten many generations after the Breaking, but her fame and success began rivalling Lews Therin's after the Seal was placed. While he took out the top generals of the Shadow, she took out every major enemy leader, most of the massed forces of Shadowspawn and then insane male Aes Sedai to boot.
Also, of the Aes Sedai, there was:
Rashima Kerenmosa who lead the forces of the Light personally to victory during the Trolloc Wars - after Aradhelle and Manetheren fell it was she who held together the Ten Nations while confronting armies of Trollocs that swarmed from the Blight as far south as the Sea of Storms (to put it into perspective, the largest engagement we have seen in the series thus far have remained at the Blight Border with the Battle of the Two Rivers being very minor)...plus when she died during the climactic battle of Maighande she was surrounded by piles of Myrdraal & Trolloc corpses and no less than nine dreadlords.
Caraighan Maconar who put down a rebellion and single-handedly ended a major riot in Comaidin (and Bonded Mangore Kiramin, a sword-bard of Aramelle who translated the Prophecies of the Dragon, and whose interpretations of those writings were actually read by many of the main characters we know of).
Deane Aryman, who came after Bonwhin's disgrace, and rebuilt the prestige of the White Tower to a level unmatched for generations before. She, with Ishara's help, raised the siege of Tar Valon, and toward the end of her career came close to convincing all the nobles of the continent to accept White Tower leadership as a means of restoring unity. Basically, she came close to making a new Empire in the vein of Hawkwing's after what was the most visible period of disgrace for the Tower - this shows her mettle as a politician and a leader.
Gitara Moroso, who set the stages of Rand's life with her Foretellings by convincing his mother to go to the Waste, his uncle to go seek after her and set Tamra Ospenya to assemble the Searchers (and prompting Moiraine and Siuan to follow in their wake).
Then you have women such as Sereille Bagand who was said to have raised the prestige of the Tower (generations after Aryman) almost to the level it had held since the time of Hawkwing's life, or Corianin Nedeal who almost certainly wrote down some of her True Dreams in code and lead directly to Verin becoming a Searcher in the manner of Siuan and Moiraine as well as setting the stage for Egwene to gain some notoriety...
Basically, the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and most of the most powerful individuals who have influenced history, such as Herid Fel, may have done so in the most indirect of ways so that only one who has the awareness and knowledge can see their hidden hands guiding it.
The POV Trap in terms of the Aes Sedai is seeing them for less than they are - even though the Tower was failing it was after many of it's leaders, and by the same token it's most dedicated members, fought and died to raise the prestige and effectiveness of the Tower. This is what kept Aes Sedai like Cadsuane, Moiraine, Siuan and Verin on their dangerous missions - the knowledge that their predecessors sacrificed a lot for the Pattern and the world, many of these sacrifices going unrecorded so that the sufferings of the few would not mar the safety of the whole. The Tower's done great things in the past that just haven't been commented on, especially since we know that most of the older Sisters retire and head off to their own individual homes, meaning that there are libraries, orphanages, farms and other institutions founded by individual Sisters that we just haven't heard of.
Also, of the Aes Sedai, there was:
Rashima Kerenmosa who lead the forces of the Light personally to victory during the Trolloc Wars - after Aradhelle and Manetheren fell it was she who held together the Ten Nations while confronting armies of Trollocs that swarmed from the Blight as far south as the Sea of Storms (to put it into perspective, the largest engagement we have seen in the series thus far have remained at the Blight Border with the Battle of the Two Rivers being very minor)...plus when she died during the climactic battle of Maighande she was surrounded by piles of Myrdraal & Trolloc corpses and no less than nine dreadlords.
Caraighan Maconar who put down a rebellion and single-handedly ended a major riot in Comaidin (and Bonded Mangore Kiramin, a sword-bard of Aramelle who translated the Prophecies of the Dragon, and whose interpretations of those writings were actually read by many of the main characters we know of).
Deane Aryman, who came after Bonwhin's disgrace, and rebuilt the prestige of the White Tower to a level unmatched for generations before. She, with Ishara's help, raised the siege of Tar Valon, and toward the end of her career came close to convincing all the nobles of the continent to accept White Tower leadership as a means of restoring unity. Basically, she came close to making a new Empire in the vein of Hawkwing's after what was the most visible period of disgrace for the Tower - this shows her mettle as a politician and a leader.
Gitara Moroso, who set the stages of Rand's life with her Foretellings by convincing his mother to go to the Waste, his uncle to go seek after her and set Tamra Ospenya to assemble the Searchers (and prompting Moiraine and Siuan to follow in their wake).
Then you have women such as Sereille Bagand who was said to have raised the prestige of the Tower (generations after Aryman) almost to the level it had held since the time of Hawkwing's life, or Corianin Nedeal who almost certainly wrote down some of her True Dreams in code and lead directly to Verin becoming a Searcher in the manner of Siuan and Moiraine as well as setting the stage for Egwene to gain some notoriety...
Basically, the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and most of the most powerful individuals who have influenced history, such as Herid Fel, may have done so in the most indirect of ways so that only one who has the awareness and knowledge can see their hidden hands guiding it.
The POV Trap in terms of the Aes Sedai is seeing them for less than they are - even though the Tower was failing it was after many of it's leaders, and by the same token it's most dedicated members, fought and died to raise the prestige and effectiveness of the Tower. This is what kept Aes Sedai like Cadsuane, Moiraine, Siuan and Verin on their dangerous missions - the knowledge that their predecessors sacrificed a lot for the Pattern and the world, many of these sacrifices going unrecorded so that the sufferings of the few would not mar the safety of the whole. The Tower's done great things in the past that just haven't been commented on, especially since we know that most of the older Sisters retire and head off to their own individual homes, meaning that there are libraries, orphanages, farms and other institutions founded by individual Sisters that we just haven't heard of.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
You know... it feels like the Aes Sedai are pretty superflouous
02/09/2009 09:48:19 PM
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Y'know, the paralells betwen the Aes Sedai in the White Tower...
02/09/2009 10:46:29 PM
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That is the inspiration for the Aes Sedai that RJ used - I can't find the article, though.
03/09/2009 02:39:14 PM
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When I was reading this I was thinking of the paralells between the white tower and
03/09/2009 02:47:33 AM
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And yet the WT has been THE single greatest force for continuity and civilization.
03/09/2009 03:37:14 AM
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Re: And yet the WT has been THE single greatest force for continuity and civilization.
03/09/2009 05:46:13 AM
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Really?
03/09/2009 05:52:38 AM
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Re: Really?
03/09/2009 06:03:13 AM
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So lets add a few more
03/09/2009 11:42:48 AM
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most of these are accounted for above
03/09/2009 02:18:01 PM
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Just because we don't know all their names, doesn't mean their effectiveness on the Pattern was less
03/09/2009 03:19:41 PM
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But who did the work?
03/09/2009 05:37:00 PM
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While these are good, none of it is because of the White Tower
03/09/2009 05:43:56 PM
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So if Elaida didn't order it, it doesn't count?
03/09/2009 07:29:20 PM
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Re: But who did the work?
04/09/2009 01:32:19 PM
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Only one point because obviously your mind is made up.
05/09/2009 06:13:23 AM
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well, yeah
05/09/2009 02:33:51 PM
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In that case, Rand, Mat, Perrin... all of them are superfluous.
05/09/2009 03:03:07 PM
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Re: In that case, Rand, Mat, Perrin... all of them are superfluous.
05/09/2009 04:57:44 PM
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I don't understand your point
03/09/2009 04:25:22 PM
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Re: I don't understand your point
03/09/2009 09:09:38 PM
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I was talking about the WT specifically, and only during recent years. It's Gotta be the Shadow,
03/09/2009 05:39:11 PM
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So what you are really saying is that if you ignore over 2/3rds of the AS the rest aren't doing much
03/09/2009 06:07:23 PM
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I'm talking about the organization as a whole
03/09/2009 10:07:37 PM
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You just made our point...
04/09/2009 12:49:44 AM
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WT has been THE single greatest force for stagancy and lack of development.
09/09/2009 08:58:58 AM
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Like I said earlier the AS are superfluous except the ones who aren't superfluous.
09/09/2009 11:55:47 AM
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To a certain extent
03/09/2009 11:33:30 AM
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Actually, I think Verin is a good metaphor here.
03/09/2009 07:59:46 PM
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Agrees with Nossy
03/09/2009 10:44:06 PM
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