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Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Datakim Send a noteboard - 05/02/2010 10:44:47 PM

Gawyn's PoV in The First Message clearly shows that Gawyn realises that there is only a rumour, and he only says that he would kill Rand if Morgase and Elayne were dead.


Even then, just because Morgase and Elayne were dead, would not mean that Rand was necessarily the one that killed them. If Gawyn was smart as someone educated and trained like he is should be, he would realise that in the current world, Rand being the Dragon Reborn is naturally going to be falsely blamed for lots of things simply because he is the Dragon Reborn.

Sure, Rand's appearance in Caemlyn is suspicious, but irrelevant given traveling. Even without knowing about Rahvin, it would be rational for Rand to have heard about Morgase's death just as he did, and travelled to Caemlyn to secure it for Elayne as far as Gawyn knows. He knows Elayne cares for Rand and has no reason to assume Rand might not return the friendship.


Later, in Like Lightning and Rain, he promises to allow Egwene to prove Rand innocent and to forestall judgment until then. Never mind that Egwene is an idiot and could have told him she was there when Rand learned of Morgase's death and decided to invade Andor to avenge her (News Comes to Cairhien).


No argument here. Egwene is an idiot for this.


But you know who does believe Morgase is dead based on a rumour? Everyone else. Rand invades Andor on the basis that he heard from Mat who heard from one of his men who heard from the enemy who have heard rumours that Morgase hasn't been seen in weeks. (News Comes to Cairhien).


Rand knows that Rahvin is hanging around in Caemlyn however. It is natural for him to assume that the rumor about Morgase would be true simply because he knows that Rahvin was in a position to kill her. Nynaeve actually sees Rahvin and can confirm that to Elayne and others. The knowledge of Rahvin in Caemlyn is what makes the rumor about Morgases death credible to Rand&co. If Lanfear had not told Rand about Rahvin, I expect Rand would have wanted to have the news confirmed first before he took action.


Regardless of all of this, Gawyn is still an idiot. Why? Because given his training and education, he should be fully aware of the prophecies and that the Dragon Reborn is required for the defeat of the DO.

Even if Rand HAD killed Morgase, Gawyn would still be an idiot for wanting Rand dead. Even if Rand had tortured Morgase first, then killed Elayne and finished by turning Caemlyn to rubble, Gawyn would STILL be an idiot for wanting Rand dead(before the LB anyway). Whatever he thinks Rand might have done, any remotely sane person who knows the prophecies should realise that there are bigger issues here.

If he really wants Rand dead so badly, he should wait until after the last battle and kill Rand then if he survives. What Gawyn wants to do is kill Rand before the LB, which would result in the victory of the DO and the complete annihilation of everything.

Gawyn places rumors above the safety of the entire universe. What else could you call someone like that other than an idiot?
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Who would win in a fight? (yes, you read that right! ) Yondaime - 04/02/2010 10:38:01 PM 2699 Views
Gawyn. *chokes back the vomit that rushes up his throat* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2010 10:53:37 PM 1433 Views
There there Yondaime - 04/02/2010 11:15:00 PM 1349 Views
Huh? He was even WORSE in TGS. Lord Haart - 05/02/2010 05:14:16 AM 1217 Views
I dunno. He actaully DID stuff this time Yondaime - 05/02/2010 05:24:48 AM 1281 Views
I agree he was much better than before darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 04:39:33 PM 1196 Views
It pains me to say it, but Gawyn would win. Jeordam - 04/02/2010 11:15:19 PM 1336 Views
Re: It pains me to say it, but Gawyn would win. Gerbeaud - 05/02/2010 01:13:52 AM 1276 Views
Gawyn is incredibly irritating Yondaime - 05/02/2010 01:55:40 AM 1294 Views
No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 10:21:45 PM 1195 Views
Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Datakim - 05/02/2010 10:44:47 PM 1208 Views
Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 11:53:18 PM 1308 Views
Perhaps the key is that Gawyn is an even more simplistic thinker than Galad. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 06:20:06 AM 1161 Views
Again, what? When? Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 08:08:47 AM 1175 Views
Well, the fact that he's had access to one of the best educations in Randland Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 09:22:28 AM 1145 Views
Completely different subjects, and pretty insignificant, really. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 06:44:35 PM 852 Views
the person to beat Gawyn is Mat imlad - 06/02/2010 06:36:03 AM 1422 Views
Perrin would beat Lan?! *NM* BlackAdder - 06/02/2010 05:52:47 PM 1112 Views
Sure, Gawyn is better BlackAdder - 05/02/2010 02:26:45 AM 1235 Views
Re: Who would win in a fight? (yes, you read that right! ) MissKoalaVB - 05/02/2010 04:27:16 AM 1336 Views
Yondaime - 05/02/2010 04:47:17 AM 1051 Views
Add Nynaeve and Egwene to the fight, that's something worth seeing then. Lord Haart - 05/02/2010 05:20:53 AM 1333 Views
Egwene would hand Nynaeve her ass darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 04:55:51 PM 1292 Views
I agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/02/2010 05:10:34 PM 1243 Views
Re: I agree. darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 05:25:52 PM 1459 Views
You're forgeting Nynaeve's fight vs Trollocs in KoD. Lord Haart - 05/02/2010 07:41:28 PM 1333 Views
Re: You're forgeting Nynaeve's fight vs Trollocs in KoD. darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 09:42:32 PM 1272 Views
I just mentioned it since you said Egwene had more combat experience. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 06:21:38 AM 1207 Views
I think you are missunderstanding me darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 02:04:13 AM 1256 Views
Re: Egwene would hand Nynaeve her ass Datakim - 05/02/2010 07:49:27 PM 1810 Views
Totally agree. *NM* Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 07:52:48 PM 1240 Views
yet RJ has told us that Nynaeve would barely pass the AS test darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 09:41:09 PM 1238 Views
Re: yet RJ has told us that Nynaeve would barely pass the AS test Datakim - 05/02/2010 10:00:11 PM 1149 Views
Nynaeve might have trouble... Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 10:24:56 PM 1238 Views
That's not what RJ said. He said Nynaeve would be a little hard pressed Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 10:18:42 PM 1053 Views
she might be a little hard pressed to pass a test she should pass without thought! darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:56:38 PM 942 Views
Moiraine was hard pressed to pass, and she practiced for ages and is the #1 Battle AS. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:27:26 PM 1172 Views
she passed pretty easily IMO darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:12:13 PM 1247 Views
Just like Be'lal did? And Lanfear's already learned that lesson the hard way. Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 01:40:45 AM 1127 Views
Re: Just like Be'lal did? And Lanfear's already learned that lesson the hard way. darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:52:40 AM 1235 Views
Yes, but choosing the time to attack is part of how good a fighter someone is. Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 06:30:55 PM 1095 Views
The test for the Shawl has little to nothing to do with channeling, you know this right? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 05/02/2010 10:23:16 PM 759 Views
Are you being serious? *NM* Sidious - 06/02/2010 08:57:33 AM 810 Views
of course it does darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:48:41 PM 1222 Views
That's not how it happens in New Spring. Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 07:00:52 PM 1141 Views
that's because Moiraine trained and is relatively skilled (for AS) darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 07:34:05 PM 1213 Views
That's nonsensical. Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 09:02:13 PM 1217 Views
It's what RJ said ... "too much specialization" darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:14:38 PM 1124 Views
Well, if RJ said it, I guess it must be true. Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 11:17:19 PM 1140 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 12:59:00 AM 1136 Views
Towers of Midnight spoilers: Fanatic-Templar - 09/11/2010 05:29:05 AM 1136 Views
Re: That's not how it happens in New Spring. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:28:52 PM 1119 Views
Right... Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 08:58:04 PM 1065 Views
About splitting weaves 14 ways Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 10:55:28 PM 1221 Views
Re: About splitting weaves 14 ways Datakim - 05/02/2010 11:08:50 PM 1095 Views
Can you provide that quote? darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 07:34:49 PM 1187 Views
Re: Can you provide that quote? Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 08:19:08 PM 1193 Views
Yup, plus those were complex weaves that may have required multiple flows. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:30:52 PM 1166 Views
there is nothing to say that multiple weaves are involved. darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:16:29 PM 1113 Views
That's the nature on the weaving. Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 09:24:39 PM 1171 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 10:46:52 PM 1197 Views
Yes, really Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 10:55:22 PM 1210 Views
Re: Yes, really Datakim - 06/02/2010 11:29:17 PM 1092 Views
Re: Yes, really Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 11:48:14 PM 1094 Views
Re: Yes, really Datakim - 07/02/2010 12:18:12 AM 1138 Views
Oh! Forgot another analogy Datakim - 07/02/2010 01:13:27 AM 1132 Views
Re: Yes, really Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 01:46:14 AM 1124 Views
Re: Yes, really Datakim - 07/02/2010 01:59:44 AM 1078 Views
Re: Yes, really Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 06:36:48 PM 1139 Views
Re: Can you provide that quote? Datakim - 06/02/2010 10:14:24 PM 1092 Views
1 Blossom = 1 Weave ... there is nothing to say that each thread requires splitting flows darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 10:48:11 PM 1186 Views
Fine, I used the word weave when I should have used flow. 36 flows to create 12 weaves. *NM* Datakim - 06/02/2010 10:57:09 PM 732 Views
IMO fighting with the Power has little to do with skill Sidious - 06/02/2010 09:01:23 AM 1126 Views
Re: IMO fighting with the Power has little to do with skill Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 09:29:06 AM 1278 Views
I agree ... it's much like Rand's approach to Graendal darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:51:17 PM 1164 Views
so you've learned nothing from Cyndane v. Alivia. darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:45:19 PM 1094 Views
Cyndane v. Alivia are probably of similar strength. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:33:08 PM 1219 Views
Re: Cyndane v. Alivia are probably of similar strength. darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:17:40 PM 1204 Views
It's a lone example contested by many other examples Sidious - 07/02/2010 09:53:51 AM 1119 Views
the only dueling where a channeler tries to overpower is Nynaeve v. Moghedien darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:57:43 PM 1210 Views
Re: the only dueling where a channeler tries to overpower is Nynaeve v. Moghedien Sidious - 07/02/2010 04:25:57 PM 1118 Views
from RJs lips to your ears ... darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 06:55:27 PM 1217 Views
Re: from RJs lips to your ears ... Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 08:04:57 PM 1053 Views
Re: from RJs lips to your ears ... darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 08:20:31 PM 1057 Views
... but I can't let this one go... Sidious - 07/02/2010 11:09:04 PM 1291 Views
Thank you Robert, Sidious, Jordan darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 11:16:30 PM 1293 Views
Re: Thank you Robert, Sidious, Jordan Sidious - 08/02/2010 09:43:15 AM 1084 Views
Hmm... Sidious - 07/02/2010 11:05:00 PM 1121 Views
if you had points worth responding too I would ... as always you fall back on pretending you are RJ darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 11:07:37 PM 1200 Views
i.e. I back up my points by using RJ's written words and their validity irritates you *NM* Sidious - 07/02/2010 11:11:55 PM 1129 Views
Re: i.e. I back up my points by using RJ's written words and their validity irritates you darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 11:18:49 PM 1160 Views
Yeah, what's a couple of fights with a Forsaken? How's Egwene without her sa'angreal crutch? Cannoli - 05/02/2010 11:40:13 PM 1086 Views
I disagree Kieran - 06/02/2010 05:30:40 AM 1091 Views
Egwene never even got into that fight and we are talking about Lanfear darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 05:46:27 PM 1120 Views
Re: Egwene never even got into that fight and we are talking about Lanfear Kieran - 06/02/2010 08:23:20 PM 1125 Views
she got hit with a pain weave before she did a damn thing darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 09:21:11 PM 1122 Views
lol Kieran - 07/02/2010 01:55:18 AM 1149 Views
Go look below at some of the quotes I've provided darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:59:51 AM 1202 Views
If the Power was used, I would agree BlackAdder - 06/02/2010 05:59:14 PM 1145 Views
On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2010 10:43:43 PM 1062 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 06/02/2010 10:49:49 PM 1079 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 11:12:27 PM 2362 Views
plenty of evidence that Nynaeve is unskilled outside of Healing darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:21:20 AM 1195 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... fionwe1987 - 07/02/2010 08:02:40 AM 1178 Views
There was one other very skilled Healer in the series... Lord Haart - 07/02/2010 06:44:41 PM 1108 Views
I'm sure she could if she bothered to train darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 06:57:17 PM 961 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... Datakim - 06/02/2010 11:15:59 PM 1117 Views
Nope darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:26:19 AM 1160 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... fionwe1987 - 07/02/2010 08:21:19 AM 1312 Views
Egwene and Nynaeve had already confront each other Elvira_Sedai - 07/02/2010 08:45:23 AM 1249 Views
but whoever wins fistofpainx - 05/02/2010 04:54:52 AM 1181 Views
*nods* That's cuz ... Yondaime - 05/02/2010 05:26:57 AM 1243 Views
I actually think Lan would win darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 04:57:24 PM 1183 Views
Agreed Myrdhyn - 05/02/2010 08:22:26 PM 1148 Views
If it was for "real" Lan wins, in practice ... Gawyn could be the superior *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2010 09:43:20 PM 645 Views
I think Lan, hands down. Skeeve the Great - 05/02/2010 03:30:20 PM 1049 Views
THANK you. Cannoli - 05/02/2010 11:41:43 PM 9682 Views
Re: THANK you. Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 06:26:04 AM 1155 Views
Gawyn and Galad have become tough Sidious - 06/02/2010 09:04:25 AM 1326 Views
Re: Gawyn and Galad have become tough Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 09:31:51 AM 1026 Views
Gawyn is destined to protect the Great Mother ( Egwene ) Elvira_Sedai - 05/02/2010 04:11:51 PM 1207 Views
You forgot that the Warder Matched Lan A LONG time ago. Lan stopped sparring. amirebram - 05/02/2010 08:42:49 PM 1023 Views
Hopper!!!!! *NM* NaClH2O - 06/02/2010 12:21:25 AM 746 Views
Hasn't Hopper already lost in a fight? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 06/02/2010 01:48:19 AM 717 Views
According to the Theoryland database RJ apparently said once... Etzel - 06/02/2010 08:55:50 AM 1201 Views
That can't be right, can it? BlackAdder - 06/02/2010 05:51:04 PM 1186 Views
Even in NS only Ryne is known to be better than Lan darius_sedai - 07/02/2010 01:57:29 AM 1238 Views
Huh .... Yondaime - 06/02/2010 06:23:10 PM 1190 Views
I don't recall Rand loosing to Riatin. Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 06:39:31 PM 1177 Views
Well, to be fair, the text doesn't mention much Yondaime - 07/02/2010 12:48:59 AM 1141 Views
Re: According to the Theoryland database RJ apparently said once... Gerbeaud - 06/02/2010 06:28:15 PM 1151 Views
"Gawhine"... I like it. *NM* Lord Haart - 06/02/2010 08:40:32 PM 739 Views
If Gawyn is the best because he defeated two Warders, what about Rand? Skeeve the Great - 06/02/2010 09:15:34 PM 1172 Views
These are pointless. Heiko - 09/02/2010 12:52:21 AM 1210 Views
These are scalar comparatives JasonD - 24/02/2010 09:45:11 PM 1167 Views
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