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This brings up a very intersting question... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that I'm more strongly weighted towards Graendal, but I edited my original before you read it, I think:

Anyway, I'm strongly in favor of Graendal, but I just thought I'd throw Moghedien out there since, given what we know of Power Levels, it would be consistent with Moghedien being seen as the weakest to get the reaction from Asmodean she would have (ie: "You?" as in disbelief and scorn mixed together. Then "No!" As he is pulled into T'A'R or balefired).


Being....Is Moghedien a Dreamer? Walking around in Tel'aran'rhiod is one thing....Dreamwalking is a total other. Can Moghedien go to the in between place (looks like a starry sky) and walk around? Can she enter another's dreams. Does she have dreams which fortell the future?

If anything...I think this is the one Dreaming-ish type ability that Lanfear had over Moghedien. We actually see that Lanfear was able to enter into Rand's dreams. She subsequently pulled him into the dreamworld, but she was able to get him and pull him in. For the life of me, I don't remember Moghedien being able to do that.

But you bring up a very good question. If someone who is dreaming into TAR , can they open up a gateway into the real world? If so, can they channel out through that gateway into the real world?

I'm going to go with "no" to both questions. We know from Moghedian's own words that the rules of what happens & what can be done in the Dreamworld are a bit different from those who dream their way there and who are there in the flesh.

So lets say that someone is there in the flesh. They open up a gateway to the real world, and attempt to toss a fireball or whatever through. Will it make it? I'm going to go with yes. Because in this instance, the channeling is as a product of the channeler's ability & the one power (which is constant through both reality & dreamworld). If they dreamed up a rock and threw it at someone through the gateway...would it make it? No. Althrough the rock is a product of a person's will, the rock itself only exists inside the dreamworld. [note: this can go into a very good debate if you want...I have a counter-example in my head]

So lets say that someone dreams into TAR . Can they open up a gateway to the real world? Don't know. We've never even seen someone in TAR make a gateway (as there is no need). To make a gateway, the channeler needs to know the place that they are (physically)....for a man...to fold the pattern & drill a hole....for a woman, to make a singularity where one place in the pattern is alike to another. Neither of those will work in the dreamworld, as TAR exists as the place between and connecting every reality. We have seen two major examples of a person entering the dreamworld in the flesh & exiting out. We have never seen a dream-self making a gateway into reality for a flesh person. I don't think that it can be done.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 1676 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 704 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 948 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 565 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 877 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 603 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 595 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 394 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 689 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 644 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 847 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 637 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 856 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 654 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 724 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 390 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 646 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 646 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 561 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 645 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 691 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 589 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 805 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 716 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 548 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 374 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 512 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 370 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 699 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 977 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 749 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 893 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 701 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 843 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 849 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 726 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 715 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 420 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 579 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 705 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 736 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 683 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 691 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 640 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 663 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 639 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 702 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 621 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 358 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 739 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 568 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 331 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 732 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 640 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 814 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 687 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 845 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 675 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 706 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 615 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 623 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 695 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 570 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 846 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 767 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 684 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 735 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 714 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 729 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 649 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 594 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 577 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 690 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 617 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 816 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 569 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 646 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 612 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 714 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 860 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 798 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 659 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 368 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 689 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 679 Views

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