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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM

I don't think you can Delve the dead person for poison. With Vandene, it was totally different. Nynaeve licked the tea on the table and spit it to the floor. There wasn't Delving to determine poison in that scene.

But you can. When Tamra died, she was delved, and they said it was natural (actually, the Power killed her, but they made it seem natural and the Delving revealed it so). Siuan certainly states that the Delving occurred. Similarly, Tamra Delves Gitara.

I see no reason why you cannot Delve a dead body.

Again, if you want to see holes in the plot - feel free. I don't see it. I see very probable chain of events, with the twist of ta'veren, that lead to discover of Graendal's lair.

Keep saying that with your fingers covering your ears. The evidence shows to the contrary.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2695 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1389 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1185 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1278 Views
You also ignored... randfandom - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1283 Views
and of course, the obvious theme Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1085 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1246 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS Etzel - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1210 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ... amirebram - 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM 2671 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1446 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1241 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Underwood - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1189 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 987 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? beetnemesis - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 994 Views
that's kind of my whole point darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 938 Views
Uh, not actually at all really Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1231 Views
*shudders* Yondaime - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1094 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1138 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1035 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1135 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 962 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1138 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1134 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1070 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1176 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 953 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1133 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 924 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM* Gher - 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM 795 Views
Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1136 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1107 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 997 Views
Re: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1105 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1102 Views
Me, Too. The Name With No Man - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1081 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Sidious - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1212 Views
I believe she's dead Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1055 Views
Re: I believe she's dead Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1094 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 918 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM* Shannow - 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM 593 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1224 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 958 Views
Stop passing judgments... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1166 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1052 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1003 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1046 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 955 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1066 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1104 Views
Re: Not really Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1040 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1038 Views
*NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 566 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1070 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 954 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1088 Views
read the whole quote darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 810 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 929 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 991 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1159 Views
I don't see any flaws. Skeeve the Great - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1176 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 925 Views
Re: But... Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1060 Views
That is what I thought ... Yondaime - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 972 Views
That still doesn't make sense. fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1149 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1181 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1045 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 973 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 902 Views
Dude, read what I said please... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1074 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1061 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 963 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot Yondaime - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1007 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 831 Views
We don't know that, exactly Yondaime - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 897 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 976 Views
Seriously? Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1004 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 956 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 707 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 642 Views
Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1085 Views
I'm tired of making this point... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 825 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... Syraelle - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1004 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 918 Views
But that means she's dead Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 985 Views
Re: But that means she's dead Heiko - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1062 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 904 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. Syraelle - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1001 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1131 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1152 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 971 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 997 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Underwood - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 978 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 789 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1005 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1098 Views
That's not fair Yondaime - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 952 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 929 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM* Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM 603 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM 739 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 913 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1025 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1058 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM 1092 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 681 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1078 Views
Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 860 Views
Re: Not even comparable. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 975 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 924 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 972 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 955 Views
And, just to double post: Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 740 Views
Re: And, just to double post: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1006 Views
Nice answer. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1058 Views
Re: Nice answer. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 992 Views
Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1091 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1014 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1000 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 846 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1042 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 988 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. Etzel - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1016 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1075 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... Etzel - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1034 Views
I disagree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1412 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM* Etzel - 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM 534 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 962 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 973 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1031 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1000 Views
I don't see a flaw rAndy aL - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1080 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw Underwood - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1000 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM 994 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. TheUltimateReality - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1011 Views
Spot on. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 669 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1010 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 651 Views
Compulsion is limited Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 985 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1111 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited DomA - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 867 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. taura-tierno - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 981 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. Libby - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1071 Views
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