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Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
To put it simply, the messenger was a very visible pawn of Graendal's. Graendal of all people knows that's it's very hard to completely erase something from the human mind, especially a location like Natrin's Barrow where that mind was subjected to the shock of Compulsion. There's always the chance that people might have some memory of the location, and that if Rand comes searching for her, he will look firstly at high-profile Domani messengers since LTT knows that's how Graendal would operate.

To counter this, she used a much more subtly-positioned servant working in a prison (Kerb). Rand would not have gone looking for him (and indeed, he didn't - Nynaeve did that). Furthermore, it seems like a lucky coincidence that Nynaeve caught Kerb out - had Rand gone there, he would have failed to sense the saidar-compulsion.

Regardless, I do tend to agree that this plot mechanism for finding Graendal was a bit weak and "lucky" for the Light, but I still don't find it to be a "major logical flaw", let alone implausible.

For all we know, the messenger had other orders, perhaps including one to return to Graendal's lair (even if she couldn't vocally reveal its location), and had to be killed for that reason.

So in summation, Graendal is dead and I don't have a hard time believing any of the events that lead up to it. It might not have been the most imaginative writing, but it was decent enough and the payoff at Natrin's Barrow was worth it.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2694 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1389 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1185 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1278 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1283 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1085 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1246 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1210 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1446 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1241 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1189 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 987 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 994 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 938 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1231 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1094 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1138 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1035 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1135 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 962 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1138 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1134 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1070 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1176 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 953 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1133 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 924 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1136 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1107 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 997 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1105 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1102 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1081 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1212 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1055 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1094 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 918 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1224 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 958 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1166 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1052 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1003 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1046 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 955 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1066 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1104 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1040 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1038 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 566 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1070 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 954 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1088 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 810 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 929 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 991 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1159 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1176 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 925 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1060 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 972 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1149 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1181 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1045 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 973 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 902 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1074 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1061 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 963 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1007 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 831 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 897 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 976 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1004 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 956 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 707 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 642 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1085 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 825 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1004 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 918 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 985 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1062 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 904 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1001 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1131 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1152 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 971 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 997 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 978 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 789 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1005 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1098 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 952 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 929 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 913 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1025 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1058 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 681 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1078 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 860 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 975 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 924 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 972 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 955 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 740 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1006 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1058 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 992 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1091 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1014 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1000 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 846 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1042 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 988 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1016 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1074 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1034 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1412 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 962 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 973 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1030 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1000 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1080 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1000 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1011 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 669 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1010 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 651 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 985 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1111 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 867 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 981 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1071 Views

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