By chance Nynaeve decided to further investigate the case concerning the dead messenger & Lady Chadmar on her own (contrary to Nynaeve, "Rand had determined that his hunt for the Domani king had hit a wall with the death of the messenger" ). Later, just before Nynaeve leaves the dungeon, she spontaneously decides to Delve Lady Chadmar to see, if she is ill and identifies the poison. This leads to Kerb, and Nynaeve manages to unravel the Compulsion on him (which is quite difficult). By chance or ta'veren, Kerb didn't lose his whole mind in the porcess, but does manage to utter at least the location of Graendal's palace, when he is asked by Rand.
While there certainly was some luck on Rand's side, this scene isn't that illogical. On the other hand, it's pretty crazy to think that Graendal could foresee all this, especially relying on chance, to lure Rand to her. If Graendal made a mistake, one could - in hindsight - say, it was apparently ordering the death of Lady Chadmar by this slow-working natural poison, which could be detected by a capable Wisdom AS in time (though as said, the Forsaken often make such mistakes, and it could have worked).
While there certainly was some luck on Rand's side, this scene isn't that illogical. On the other hand, it's pretty crazy to think that Graendal could foresee all this, especially relying on chance, to lure Rand to her. If Graendal made a mistake, one could - in hindsight - say, it was apparently ordering the death of Lady Chadmar by this slow-working natural poison, which could be detected by a capable Wisdom AS in time (though as said, the Forsaken often make such mistakes, and it could have worked).
It seems that some people think that Graendal is second only to the Creator in prowess. It was a complete coincidence that Nynaeve stumbled upon one of Graendal's victims. Not only that but Graendal would have had to assume that Rand could get her location from Kerb, which he was clearly forbidden to do. Rand had to get a female channeler to unravel Graendal's webs and then get a small piece of information before the boy died. If Graendal could plan this then she IS the Creator.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
- 2733 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene
25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
- 1468 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
- 1266 Views
After reading 12 WoT books...
25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
- 1366 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
- 2759 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
- 1330 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
- 1267 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
- 1087 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
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that's kind of my whole point
25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
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None of those "easy explanations" could work
26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
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my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
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Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
- 1049 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible?
26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
- 1281 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
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26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
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Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
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Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
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He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
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Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
- 1300 Views
I believe she's dead
25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
- 1135 Views
Re: I believe she's dead
25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
- 1182 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
- 632 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
- 1304 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
- 1056 Views
Stop passing judgments...
26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
- 1244 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
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I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
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Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
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Dude, then you derailed the thread...
26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
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no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
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Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
- 1181 Views
read the whole quote
26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
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LOL! You read the whole quote
26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
- 1001 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
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Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
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I don't see any flaws.
25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
- 1251 Views
But...
25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
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Re: But...
26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
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That still doesn't make sense.
26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
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But, having a clean up guy does make sense.
26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
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But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
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Nonsense.
26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
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Dude, read what I said please...
26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
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Re: Dude, read what I said please...
26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
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Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
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I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
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Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
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Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
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Ok, in more detail:
26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
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Thoughts
26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
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Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
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Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
- 1056 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
- 1218 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
- 1070 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
- 871 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
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Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
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That's not fair
27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
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I agree about the 'awesome' part
.
27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
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Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
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It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
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I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
- 1004 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
- 1109 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
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Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
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Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
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Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
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Not even comparable.
28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
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Re: Not even comparable.
28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
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Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
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And, just to double post:
27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
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Re: And, just to double post:
27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
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Nice answer.
28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
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Re: Nice answer.
28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
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Hilarious.
28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
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Re: Hilarious.
28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
- 1123 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts.
29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
- 1072 Views
Moridin's main directive was..
29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
- 1108 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was..
29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
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Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
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I disagree.
29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
- 1503 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display.
*NM*
29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
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You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
- 1030 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
- 1058 Views
I don't see a flaw
27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
- 1166 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw
27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
- 1112 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
- 1074 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
- 1082 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
- 688 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
- 1059 Views