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I mean... Etzel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM
That it doesn't kill the "Graendal was there"-theory, all the quotes rather indicate that truly just SH and Elza were involved - as it seems to be the case in the book - because only these two characters are mentioned regarding the scene. It seems especially unlikely that the Compulsion expert Graendal was apparently needed to find out that Elza was under Compulsion and to teach her the necessary weaves, but that Graendal wouldn't remove the Compulsion then or simply take the DM herself (after probably checking what weaves would actually be needed for Elza to open the box ). It's even said that Elza was "essential" for SH for getting things done (since SH is limited in affecting the physical world), though one wonders why SH couldn't use Graendal, if she was anyway already involved.

Ah, well, we will see.


No one asked if anyone else was involved, nor did we get a specific answer to how Elza learned what she learned, or what else was done to her in order to make her SH tool. For all we know it could have been a series of evenings in TAR with Moridin discussing Theology :)

This is the part of me that wishes authors didn't give out-of-book explanations like this! We all interpret those in a thousand ways too.


A possibility I think we didn't consider yet is that Elza already knew these rarely known weaves since some time before, maybe those are hidden weaves of her Ajah.
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Elza's Compulsion Sidious - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 1890 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 820 Views
I disagree Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 675 Views
except work with Semirhage! darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 604 Views
Well... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 675 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 239 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 215 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 511 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 203 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 454 Views
The question is... Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 471 Views
Re: The question is... darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 449 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 486 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 461 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 472 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 462 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 810 Views
I know... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 673 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 753 Views
That doesn't prove anything... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 690 Views
It proves enough for me ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 585 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... Sidious - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 425 Views
not really darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 475 Views
I don't understand your theory Sidious - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 438 Views
It's very simple darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 427 Views
So in other words Sidious - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 546 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct darius_sedai - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 443 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct Sidious - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 472 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 457 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer Sidious - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 459 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 454 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 495 Views
But by this logic... Etzel - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 457 Views
Yes... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 502 Views
While you are right... Etzel - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 474 Views
as we've discussed in another thread darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 848 Views
I mean... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 466 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 485 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 422 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 214 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 676 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 705 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 507 Views
I have a hard time... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 515 Views
I agree with you Sidious - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 443 Views
and you may very well be correct darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 664 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 542 Views
Anything is possible ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 538 Views
who knows darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 508 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... Shishka - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 443 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 595 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 469 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 446 Views
Good point! Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 526 Views
Re: Good point! Shishka - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 421 Views
I agree Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 408 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 491 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 485 Views
this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM 465 Views
damn double posting darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 432 Views
As it is often the case... Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 523 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 481 Views
Well... Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 383 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 423 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 523 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 671 Views
One point darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 611 Views
Re: One point Oberonus - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 535 Views
Elza truly believes that... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 538 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 579 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. Cannoli - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 514 Views
fair enough darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 558 Views
Not quite rAndy aL - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 563 Views
But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM 212 Views
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