There is something that I was wondering.
Exactly how is it that LTT was unable to execute his original plan?
We know that LTT was all about using the seven seals from the very beginning, however it says in the tSaSG that LTT originally wanted to use a link of male and female AS to place the seals, rather than going at it alone the way he eventually did. A female AS called Latra Posae Decume opposed this plan and convinced the female AS not to help LTT with his plan due to the inherent risks involved. This is even remarked by LTT in TGS when he calls them traitors for that.
LPD rather hopes to use the CK to drive the shadow back and then create a barrier around Shayol Ghul to contain the Dark One. And since LPD has convinced the female AS not to help, LTT is screwed. Eventually the CK access keys are lost but LPD still refuses to help so LTT says "to hell with this" and goes at it alone. This results in the DO being mostly sealed and an end to the war, but also taints saidin and causes the breaking.
Now thats just repeating that which everyone probably knows, the thing that I was wondering is, how does that make any sense at all?
I mean my understanding was there there were FAR more channelers during the AoL than there are in the current time, and that most of those channelers were stronger than the modern ones. Wot Encyclopaedia says that LTT only needed seven females (and 6 men) to execute his original plan. Given the vast numbers of AS and the fact that LTT was considered one of the (if not THE) most acclaimed men of his age, how exactly could LPD have had so much power that NONE of the female AS supported LTT? I mean he needed just 7! Out of countless thousands!
A part of me wonders if maybe it might not have been LTT's own ta'veren that convinced every woman channeler that he came close to not to help. RJ did say that if the women had helped, both sides of the OP would have been tainted which would obviously have destroyed everything, and I presume the pattern would have wanted to stop this.
And yet surely this is something that people should have noticed? I mean if _every female AS_ who goes near LTT suddenly decides that joining him is a bad idea, then surely he would go "wait just a minute here" and realise that maybe the pattern is trying to tell him something. Ofcourse if he had decided not to go through with it, the DO would probably have broken free and won. However there is no indication that LTT realised anything like that. So presumably ta'veren influence, if it happened, was not obvious. But how could every female AS suddenly turning against LTT not be obvious?
I wonder if this is a plothole by RJ who messed up with the numbers. Or if not, could there be something special about the people LTT wanted to join him in a link. Wot encyc. says that LPD convinced all the strongest AS not to help him, but even then why not just create a bigger link with more women? I mean LTT could have found women who can barely channel and created a link of 72 instead. Heck why not do that from the start? Surely for this kind of hugely important thing you would want the best possible link, especially if more OP strength was important. And yet he wanted 13 channelers. And in TGS he says that brute force was not the answer. So what happened? How did LPD neutralise his plan so easily?
I was wondering if there might not be another reason that has yet to be revealed. Could there be somekind of talent required to manipulate the bore/pattern and that despite the vast number of AS, only a small amount could help LTT due to this. And LPD convinced those few people not to help. That might explain things maybe?
We know that some people are good at healing. Others have foretellings or can see ta'veren. Could there potentially be a similar talent when it comes to using the OP to manipulate the pattern/reality? LTT might have had this talent strongly along with the men he wanted in the circle, but he needed 7 women with the same talent and they were very rare. This might explain how LPD was able to neutralise LTT. She did not need to convince the entire AS army to oppose LTT, just the few selected AS who had this rare talent.
Thoughts?
Exactly how is it that LTT was unable to execute his original plan?
We know that LTT was all about using the seven seals from the very beginning, however it says in the tSaSG that LTT originally wanted to use a link of male and female AS to place the seals, rather than going at it alone the way he eventually did. A female AS called Latra Posae Decume opposed this plan and convinced the female AS not to help LTT with his plan due to the inherent risks involved. This is even remarked by LTT in TGS when he calls them traitors for that.
LPD rather hopes to use the CK to drive the shadow back and then create a barrier around Shayol Ghul to contain the Dark One. And since LPD has convinced the female AS not to help, LTT is screwed. Eventually the CK access keys are lost but LPD still refuses to help so LTT says "to hell with this" and goes at it alone. This results in the DO being mostly sealed and an end to the war, but also taints saidin and causes the breaking.
Now thats just repeating that which everyone probably knows, the thing that I was wondering is, how does that make any sense at all?
I mean my understanding was there there were FAR more channelers during the AoL than there are in the current time, and that most of those channelers were stronger than the modern ones. Wot Encyclopaedia says that LTT only needed seven females (and 6 men) to execute his original plan. Given the vast numbers of AS and the fact that LTT was considered one of the (if not THE) most acclaimed men of his age, how exactly could LPD have had so much power that NONE of the female AS supported LTT? I mean he needed just 7! Out of countless thousands!
A part of me wonders if maybe it might not have been LTT's own ta'veren that convinced every woman channeler that he came close to not to help. RJ did say that if the women had helped, both sides of the OP would have been tainted which would obviously have destroyed everything, and I presume the pattern would have wanted to stop this.
And yet surely this is something that people should have noticed? I mean if _every female AS_ who goes near LTT suddenly decides that joining him is a bad idea, then surely he would go "wait just a minute here" and realise that maybe the pattern is trying to tell him something. Ofcourse if he had decided not to go through with it, the DO would probably have broken free and won. However there is no indication that LTT realised anything like that. So presumably ta'veren influence, if it happened, was not obvious. But how could every female AS suddenly turning against LTT not be obvious?
I wonder if this is a plothole by RJ who messed up with the numbers. Or if not, could there be something special about the people LTT wanted to join him in a link. Wot encyc. says that LPD convinced all the strongest AS not to help him, but even then why not just create a bigger link with more women? I mean LTT could have found women who can barely channel and created a link of 72 instead. Heck why not do that from the start? Surely for this kind of hugely important thing you would want the best possible link, especially if more OP strength was important. And yet he wanted 13 channelers. And in TGS he says that brute force was not the answer. So what happened? How did LPD neutralise his plan so easily?
I was wondering if there might not be another reason that has yet to be revealed. Could there be somekind of talent required to manipulate the bore/pattern and that despite the vast number of AS, only a small amount could help LTT due to this. And LPD convinced those few people not to help. That might explain things maybe?
We know that some people are good at healing. Others have foretellings or can see ta'veren. Could there potentially be a similar talent when it comes to using the OP to manipulate the pattern/reality? LTT might have had this talent strongly along with the men he wanted in the circle, but he needed 7 women with the same talent and they were very rare. This might explain how LPD was able to neutralise LTT. She did not need to convince the entire AS army to oppose LTT, just the few selected AS who had this rare talent.
Thoughts?
LTT and the bore.
16/01/2010 02:50:34 AM
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I think there is a scene in KoD or CoT
16/01/2010 02:57:13 AM
- 648 Views
It's in KoD, but I don't know exactly what it's got to do with this?
18/01/2010 06:51:37 AM
- 496 Views
Re: It's in KoD, but I don't know exactly what it's got to do with this?
19/01/2010 05:13:26 AM
- 504 Views
You'll need to provide the quote then ... otherwise I'm not sure what you are talking about
19/01/2010 06:14:20 AM
- 446 Views
It had to be a circle of six men and six women...
16/01/2010 03:18:16 AM
- 611 Views
Here's the quote...
16/01/2010 06:02:49 AM
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Re: Here's the quote...
16/01/2010 04:00:11 PM
- 533 Views
I think it's more like a woman of Sorilea's strength than Nynaeve's that he worried about
16/01/2010 04:19:24 PM
- 484 Views
It could be that the Pattern Made LPD a Ta'varen for a period of time...
16/01/2010 04:03:14 AM
- 529 Views
I think...
16/01/2010 11:31:18 AM
- 639 Views
Re: I think...
16/01/2010 01:27:40 PM
- 583 Views
In my view...
16/01/2010 01:50:03 PM
- 453 Views
Re: In my view...
16/01/2010 02:11:20 PM
- 458 Views
We know...
16/01/2010 02:43:41 PM
- 572 Views
Its presented as fact
16/01/2010 03:00:33 PM
- 463 Views
Here is a quote by RJ
16/01/2010 03:10:28 PM
- 490 Views
Re: Here is a quote by RJ
16/01/2010 03:26:13 PM
- 544 Views
In my opinion
16/01/2010 03:51:02 PM
- 441 Views
RJ was as slippery as an AS!
16/01/2010 04:31:02 PM
- 444 Views
Re: We know...
16/01/2010 03:17:54 PM
- 518 Views
It's in any case clear...
16/01/2010 03:27:49 PM
- 422 Views
Re: It's in any case clear...
16/01/2010 03:44:33 PM
- 463 Views
I don't think
16/01/2010 03:56:25 PM
- 466 Views
I spent a lot of time thinking on the population issue too. I think it was a matter of ...
18/01/2010 07:51:31 PM
- 521 Views
My Thoughts
16/01/2010 09:43:33 PM
- 455 Views
Wow, that's an interesting point. It's even more signnificant since T'A'R is supposed to ...
18/01/2010 07:36:35 PM
- 417 Views