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I know... Etzel Send a noteboard - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM
BS's quotes suggest that there were only SH and Elza involved:

Q. "How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?"
A. "Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her."

We don't know how, but apparently SH gave Elza this knowledge, when she was made into his tool.

SH can't channel the One Power - further, he can't channel saidar. Thus he wouldn't be in a position to pass on any weaves from the Age of Legends. We didn't see any other Black Ajah members around, so it seems she was the only one available.

And:
Q: "You mention that Shaidar Haran has quite a few limitations on his power. Can you give us a few concrete examples of these limitations?"
A: "Shaidar Haran needs a minion to most of his work for him. Elza was essential to Shaidar Haran in getting things done."

If Graendal (or one of Moridin's pets) was there, Elza certainly wouldn't be that essential for SH to getting things done. Graendal could have done everything even better than Elza.


Graendal might have been ordered to show Elza these weaves, but allowed to return to her palace since she had other important plots going on. Similar to how Semirhage was tasked with torturing and questioning an Aes Sedai named Cabriana Mecandes, so that Aran'gar would have a cover story, and then returned to Seanchan for her own mission.


But maybe SH can somehow give this knowledge as a certain gift? After all, the DO can give even more powerful gifts, as e.g. Slayer's abilities prove.
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Elza's Compulsion Sidious - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 1929 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 877 Views
I disagree Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 719 Views
except work with Semirhage! darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 658 Views
Well... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 726 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 258 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 234 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 565 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 211 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 498 Views
The question is... Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 518 Views
Re: The question is... darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 508 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 545 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 510 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 532 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 508 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 863 Views
I know... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 723 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 803 Views
That doesn't prove anything... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 741 Views
It proves enough for me ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 630 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... Sidious - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 477 Views
not really darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 496 Views
I don't understand your theory Sidious - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 485 Views
It's very simple darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 473 Views
So in other words Sidious - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 595 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct darius_sedai - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 495 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct Sidious - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 518 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 523 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer Sidious - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 513 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 501 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 541 Views
But by this logic... Etzel - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 478 Views
Yes... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 537 Views
While you are right... Etzel - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 524 Views
as we've discussed in another thread darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 902 Views
I mean... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 520 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 534 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 472 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 234 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 722 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 760 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 557 Views
I have a hard time... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 567 Views
I agree with you Sidious - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 493 Views
and you may very well be correct darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 716 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 584 Views
Anything is possible ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 590 Views
who knows darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 560 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... Shishka - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 467 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 645 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 527 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 498 Views
Good point! Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 583 Views
Re: Good point! Shishka - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 474 Views
I agree Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 458 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 544 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 537 Views
this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM 517 Views
damn double posting darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 485 Views
As it is often the case... Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 570 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 533 Views
Well... Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 428 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 466 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 575 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 719 Views
One point darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 671 Views
Re: One point Oberonus - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 588 Views
Elza truly believes that... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 586 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 631 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. Cannoli - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 564 Views
fair enough darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 619 Views
Not quite rAndy aL - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 609 Views
But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM 228 Views
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