It was very clear where her sympathies lie. A lot of it was superficial.
fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 12/01/2010 10:41:09 PM
After the reunification of the Tower, Egwene told the Salidar Hall that they must apologise for breaking the Tower before she'd let them back in, and she told the Tower Hall that they were a disgrace for allowing Elaida free reign.
And since both were done quite openly, the WT AS know that Egwene thinks the Hall in the Tower was stupid, and is confident enough of her support among the Rebels to make them accept this superficial gesture of reconciliation.
Was Egwene sanctimonious, pious, out of place, arrogant etc with this? I'm undecided about it, and I think there are valid arguments for both sides. I also think she's lucky they didn't box her ears or tell her to get lost in this scene, but I guess they were all shocked by the Seanchan, and caught up in their unique circumstances.
I think the whole thing was a very deplomatic way of saying:
"The loyalists screwed up. The Rebels were correct. We've won over you, but don't want to rub that in your face, so we'll be large-hearted and "apologize" to you."
The Tower Hall did not retaliate or show too much anger because
a) They knew they were already accepting defeat when they invited her to become Amyrlin (it was a tacit admission that her time as Rebel Amyrlin wasn't fully illegal, since if it was, they were bound by law to still her. Elaida's argument that she was duped wouldn't quite wash in this situation).
b) They had already eaten humble pie by letting in her army and commanding theirs to submit to her general. What's one sharp speech to them?
c) However weird it may seem, Egwene was damned right. They did indeed fail the Tower, and the resulting disaster was a gaping hole in the Hall's wall that was framing Egwene. Hard to argue with that.
The attacking stance is obviously that Egwene was wrong to do this. Here are some reasons why she wasn't wrong...
1. She's right. The people in Salidar did break the Tower and the Tower Sitters did allow Elaida to become a tyrant. Egwene is merely telling the truth. Any member of the White ajah could have done the same.
1. She's right. The people in Salidar did break the Tower and the Tower Sitters did allow Elaida to become a tyrant. Egwene is merely telling the truth. Any member of the White ajah could have done the same.
Not really. She's not saying the Salidar faction was wrong at all. Like she said Siuan, she doesn't want them to say they are sorry they left. Which means she's fully accepting that they had every right to leave when they did. It is merely a continuation of her speech to the BA hunters where she tells them they were wrong to depose Siuan, and the Rebels were right to oppose that action.
By asking the Rebels to make a formal apology to her, and not the Tower AS, she made it quite clear that this was merely a superficial act, meant to act as a balm to heal relations. No one was fooled. the Rebels came into the Tower in an ascendant position, and the way Egwene thinks of Lelaine and Romanda in the epilogue, it is clear they enjoy a very great deal of influence in the Hall.
I'm fairly certain that they Rebels, while surprised at this move, accept it and aren't pissed that Egwene demanded it of them.
2. Egwene is not a hypocrite because she isn't truly part of the Salidar camp. She was not present during the breaking of the Tower and played absolutely no part in it. She did not organize a rebellion against Elaida and she was forced into her position under the penalty of stilling. She therefore has the right to berate the Salidar Hall.
That is nonsense. She gave them the backbone to move from Salidar and actually besiege Tar Valon. She is the main reason the Rebellion continued and succeeded!
She is, however, not a hypocrite because she admitted to the WT Hall that she too was not without blame since she sided with the Rebels (since she made it clear she chose to side with the Rebels and could be held accountable for it, your argument that she wasn't part of it is invalid anyway).
3. She's the Amyrlin - of all ajahs and of none. Like a member of the gray ajah sorting out a feud between two lords, Egwene can be an external critic without being hypocritical.
This doesn't seem right, and I'm sure no one saw it this way. An Amyrlin doesn't have a right to hypocrisy.
4. She's being politically sensible. She's making everyone say sorry as surely as a mother makes her two fighting sons say sorry to one another after a fight. If everyone is sorry, then everyone is forgiven, and wounds heal faster.
This, of course, is the primary motive of her actions, and is as such a laudable one.
Let's hear it... was she wrong?
Nope. Not at all.
This message last edited by fionwe1987 on 12/01/2010 at 10:41:43 PM
Was Egwene wrong to berate both Halls after the reunification?
12/01/2010 05:13:59 PM
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She was right, as long as she never mentions it again
12/01/2010 05:19:38 PM
- 712 Views
I didn't expect it, but it was absolutely the right thing for her to do.
12/01/2010 06:13:42 PM
- 702 Views
She was absolutely right and I love to hear good beratings.
12/01/2010 06:49:56 PM
- 657 Views
Like you'd say anything else. *NM*
13/01/2010 04:22:13 AM
- 265 Views
If the berating sucked, I would have complained. But it was pretty good to hear/read. *NM*
13/01/2010 04:33:29 PM
- 301 Views
Re: Was Egwene wrong to berate both Halls after the reunification?
12/01/2010 06:58:40 PM
- 625 Views
Reasonable in terms of power politics, but still somewhat deceitful.
12/01/2010 07:06:33 PM
- 675 Views
Re: Was Egwene wrong to berate both Halls after the reunification?
12/01/2010 07:20:30 PM
- 721 Views
I doubt it.
12/01/2010 09:58:40 PM
- 580 Views
It was a political move. It was the right political move, but not "morally" right.
12/01/2010 08:03:27 PM
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It was very clear where her sympathies lie. A lot of it was superficial.
12/01/2010 10:41:09 PM
- 702 Views
She didn't mention/berate the 300+ AS who ignored this whole facade of a plotline.
13/01/2010 01:27:02 AM
- 604 Views
it's not like they were there to berate! *NM*
13/01/2010 04:10:49 AM
- 240 Views
Wait until they come back and she slams them for "ignoring the Tower in its hour of need." *NM*
13/01/2010 04:20:55 AM
- 247 Views
She should
13/01/2010 04:22:13 AM
- 640 Views
They probably had more important matters than the privileges of a tiny group of powerful women.
14/01/2010 12:11:04 AM
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right, they were very very busy doing a whole lot of nothing
14/01/2010 12:13:06 AM
- 539 Views
Keeping an eye on the transition between rulers of the most powerful country IS more important
18/01/2010 12:19:17 PM
- 715 Views
they've been coming and going for months ... with no indication of what they are really up too
19/01/2010 06:24:27 AM
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What part of "keeping an eye on" suggests action or interference?
22/01/2010 01:38:52 PM
- 576 Views
It depends what she does next. It was really a tactical thing and politics can excuse the hypocrisy
13/01/2010 04:20:06 AM
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