Wheel of Time Messageboard: There are issues, of course! :D by fionwe1987

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There are issues, of course!

fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 09/01/2010 06:17:08 PM

IMO, the Forsaken's strength range from 80 - 100 (Moghedien is at 70). Mesaana, Asmodean and others are on the lower side, and Ishamael, Lanfear and Demandred at the top.

Mostly with you, so far.

Aes Sedai strength ranges from 5 to 25, with most Sisters sitting between 15 and 25 - which keeps with Siuan's statement on strength. A strong sister is at about 25, average at 20, weak at 15, and some exceptionally weak women are below this.

So, 10 or 11 of the 21 levels occupy the range from 0 to 25? And the other 10 occupy 25 to 100? As you said earlier, this doesn't make sense, because this means that the difference between some of the levels is less than that between others. It also leaves vast gaps occupied by no one.

Depending on which arena you play in, this is all acceptable. Siuan/Moiraine is about 20 - 25% stronger than the average Aes Sedai, and the strongest Forsaken are about 20 - 25% stronger than the average Forsaken.

You can get the same results by shifting the Aes Sedai to a higher range.

Elayne (50) + Merilille (20) + Renaille (20) = 90

Merilille would have to be 15, since she cannot Travel, and Elayne less than 50, since she isn't at full potential.

Egwene (50) + Romanda (25) + Lelaine (25) = 100
Egwene (50) + Aviendha (50) = 100

Thus, Egwene with Romanda and Lelaine, or with Avi, can match any of the Forsaken in strength. My interpretation that Egwene was referring to skill when she said she couldn't face one of the FS in a circle with R and L holds.

Of course, both circles lose a little strength due to linking, but gain the advantage of a singular precision flow. Egwene has seen 100 strength in action, so she's worried she couldn't stand up to the Forsaken even with two strong women linked to her. Elayne merely thinks she can tear down half the palace, which Taim could do too - it's a pretty even match.

Yup. The issue is, in the end, one of skill.

But place Egwene at 65-70, Aes Sedai around 40, and you get the same results, but this also matches what RJ said about the Bell Curve.

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Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? Sidious - 07/01/2010 03:34:05 PM 1429 Views

Basically you have to be ready for anything! darius_sedai - 07/01/2010 03:45:31 PM 780 Views

Yep. Send Daigian in Linked with 12 of her buddies (one of whom is holding an angreal) & hes screwed RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/01/2010 05:19:03 PM 998 Views

Miscommunication seems to be a major theme of the series *NM* darius_sedai - 07/01/2010 07:17:16 PM 394 Views

As well as missed opportunities. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/01/2010 09:27:56 PM 707 Views

yes, the Amyrlin story line could have been wrapped up much earlier! darius_sedai - 07/01/2010 09:55:30 PM 812 Views

Yeah, I really wish his vision had been pushed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/01/2010 10:16:15 PM 640 Views

ROFL darius_sedai - 08/01/2010 01:01:03 AM 616 Views

Re: ROFL RugbyPlayingAshaman - 08/01/2010 02:43:50 PM 653 Views

For a major theme, it sure is surprising Wotmaniac Reborn - 08/01/2010 04:10:22 AM 694 Views

really? miscommunication seems to be woven into just about every sentence darius_sedai - 08/01/2010 04:53:48 AM 633 Views

Re: really? miscommunication seems to be woven into just about every sentence Wotmaniac Reborn - 08/01/2010 04:10:04 PM 724 Views

Re: Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? Datakim - 07/01/2010 03:48:14 PM 816 Views

Thanks for pointing to that Taim incident... its another proof... fionwe1987 - 07/01/2010 04:15:33 PM 775 Views

I always like to think that Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha Linked can match Rand. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/01/2010 05:26:35 PM 703 Views

Those three... fionwe1987 - 07/01/2010 05:35:24 PM 676 Views

I think this is probably close darius_sedai - 07/01/2010 07:19:40 PM 828 Views

Sidious - 07/01/2010 08:51:15 PM 851 Views

HA! fionwe1987 - 07/01/2010 09:01:14 PM 796 Views

Re: HA! Sidious - 08/01/2010 11:37:06 AM 824 Views

Re: HA! fionwe1987 - 08/01/2010 04:21:01 PM 629 Views

d'oh ... you've got him there

darius_sedai - 08/01/2010 05:35:15 PM 567 Views

Hmm... Sidious - 09/01/2010 03:02:04 PM 616 Views

Re: Hmm... darius_sedai - 09/01/2010 04:47:05 PM 737 Views

Re: Hmm... Sidious - 09/01/2010 05:06:06 PM 729 Views

as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose darius_sedai - 09/01/2010 06:20:26 PM 828 Views

Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose Sidious - 09/01/2010 07:32:57 PM 2956 Views

Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose darius_sedai - 09/01/2010 09:05:01 PM 813 Views

Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose Sidious - 09/01/2010 09:15:32 PM 957 Views

Re: as we've discussed in the past, it's very loose darius_sedai - 10/01/2010 02:06:09 AM 765 Views

There are issues, of course!

fionwe1987 - 09/01/2010 06:17:08 PM 934 Views

Re: There are issues, of course!

Sidious - 09/01/2010 07:18:03 PM 887 Views

I think I fall in between you guys darius_sedai - 09/01/2010 08:46:58 PM 818 Views

Getting tired of this merry go round, but here we go again... Shannow - 07/01/2010 09:08:59 PM 727 Views

Don't get on it! It causes insanity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/01/2010 09:29:15 PM 635 Views

d'uh darius_sedai - 07/01/2010 09:57:30 PM 723 Views

For the last time! fionwe1987 - 07/01/2010 09:50:16 PM 898 Views

it's about EFFECTIVE strength Fionwe (jk) darius_sedai - 07/01/2010 10:05:48 PM 592 Views

I don't think they were that bad back then, but still... fionwe1987 - 07/01/2010 10:11:46 PM 707 Views

and he's gone out of his way IMO to show that it's a stupid darius_sedai - 07/01/2010 10:41:03 PM 763 Views

Re: I don't think they were that bad back then, but still... Sidious - 08/01/2010 11:38:48 AM 624 Views

I'd actually go with Elayne in matters of battle. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 08/01/2010 02:47:34 PM 734 Views

Wow, I wasn't expecting that

Sidious - 08/01/2010 02:55:53 PM 816 Views

I'm not too impressed with the Forsaken so far. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 08/01/2010 03:30:43 PM 636 Views

I'm tempted to go with Taim too, but... fionwe1987 - 08/01/2010 04:25:52 PM 680 Views

If Elayne had wanted Taim dead, he and his minions would have been dead darius_sedai - 08/01/2010 05:41:29 PM 730 Views

The reverse would be true too, though... fionwe1987 - 08/01/2010 05:50:02 PM 641 Views

But she just heard Taim say to basically stand down darius_sedai - 08/01/2010 06:05:43 PM 692 Views

But... fionwe1987 - 08/01/2010 08:53:11 PM 891 Views

Ah but Elayne also knew they knew Rand wouldn't allow it darius_sedai - 08/01/2010 10:40:45 PM 741 Views

That whole lack of communication thing made my eye twitch. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 08/01/2010 11:00:25 PM 750 Views

or just painfully stupid! darius_sedai - 08/01/2010 11:10:37 PM 574 Views

Re: But... Heiko - 10/01/2010 03:20:12 AM 746 Views

Re: Is Rand logical when he estimates female danger? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/01/2010 05:13:48 PM 628 Views

I think he is illogical towards all danger, regardless of gender. amirebram - 07/01/2010 06:39:37 PM 643 Views

Do fat kids run marathons? No. And no Rand isn't logical when he estimates female danger. *NM* callandor1000 - 07/01/2010 06:44:08 PM 456 Views

It's all kind of irrelevant. Cannoli - 08/01/2010 11:28:46 PM 906 Views

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<quote id="68557">
<quote id="68508">
IMO, the Forsaken's strength range from 80 - 100 (Moghedien is at 70). Mesaana, Asmodean and others are on the lower side, and Ishamael, Lanfear and Demandred at the top.</quote>
Mostly with you, so far.
<quote>Aes Sedai strength ranges from 5 to 25, with most Sisters sitting between 15 and 25 - which keeps with Siuan's statement on strength. A strong sister is at about 25, average at 20, weak at 15, and some exceptionally weak women are below this.</quote> 
So, 10 or 11 of the 21 levels occupy the range from 0 to 25? And the other 10 occupy 25 to 100? As you said earlier, this doesn't make sense, because this means that the difference between some of the levels is less than that between others. It also leaves vast gaps occupied by no one.
<quote>Depending on which arena you play in, this is all acceptable. Siuan/Moiraine is about 20 - 25% stronger than the average Aes Sedai, and the strongest Forsaken are about 20 - 25% stronger than the average Forsaken.</quote>
You can get the same results by shifting the Aes Sedai to a higher range. 
<quote>Elayne (50) + Merilille (20) + Renaille (20) = 90</quote>
Merilille would have to be 15, since she cannot Travel, and Elayne less than 50, since she isn't at full potential. 
<quote>Egwene (50) + Romanda (25) + Lelaine (25) = 100
Egwene (50) + Aviendha (50) = 100</quote>
Thus, Egwene with Romanda and Lelaine, or with Avi, can match any of the Forsaken in strength. My interpretation that Egwene was referring to skill when she said she couldn't face one of the FS in a circle with R and L holds.
<quote>Of course, both circles lose a little strength due to linking, but gain the advantage of a singular precision flow. Egwene has seen 100 strength in action, so she's worried she couldn't stand up to the Forsaken even with two strong women linked to her. Elayne merely thinks she can tear down half the palace, which Taim could do too - it's a pretty even match.</quote>
Yup. The issue is, in the end, one of skill.

But place Egwene at 65-70, Aes Sedai around 40, and you get the same results, but this also matches what RJ said about the Bell Curve. :)
</quote>

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