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Re: There is another way... Shishka Send a noteboard - 05/01/2010 07:35:05 PM
Lets assume that Graendal had Aran'gar with her.

Idiot emissary comes. Graendal knows he's been sent by Rand just now because Aran'gar could sense the Gateway.

She compels the emissary, but not very strongly, (Nynaeve says:
She hissed and said, "Yes. Rand,
he's under a heavy Compulsion. There are a lot of weaves here. Not as bad as the chandler's apprentice, or maybe just more subtle."
.) It is likely that Graendal used some very complex compulsion that would not leave the mind fo the victim useless. And, knowing that there may be some trick, she disguises herself and follows him with Aran'gar.

When Rand arrives, Graendal and Aran'gar are not far away, though they're at enough of a distance not to be seen by Rand (and they've cloaked their abilities).

When Rand channels through the CK, Aran'gar knows. She also knows what he's weaving, since there's a moment before Rand sends the Balefire against the palace.

Granedal does the quick thinking she's famous for and realizes the purpose of the emissary.


I'm with you so far, although it's still a pretty big leap, for me, to accept that Graendal realized the purpose of the emissary, immediately (or very quickly) after she became aware that Rand was about to weave Balefire. But the addition of knowing about the Balefire makes the idea less implausible, I agree.

Now, here's where things get hairy. We know of no way for a person to un-knot their weaves from a distance. But are we sure that's impossible? Could it not be that from her hidden location, Granedal removed the compulsion. Since it wasn't too strong, Ramshalan's mind was not screwed, and Nynaeve was able to report that it was removed.

Notice that some time passed between Rand's balefiring of the palace and Nynaeve's testing of Ramshalan. That time is sufficient to account for the removal of the compulsion.


I agree that there may have been enough time, but I just think it's unlikely she'd be able to do such a thing from a distance.

I like the way you included Aran'gar, though. I tried to think of a way for it to have been Aran'gar, not Graendal, who Compelled the emissary (and therefore that it was she who died in the balefire blast, not Graendal), but it just doesn't work. The Complusion was definitely done with saidar, since Nynaeve could see the weaves. That rules out Aran'gar's involvement, unless she and Graendal linked, and Aran'gar lead the link (would this be considered a 1man-1woman link, in which case Aran'gar would HAVE to lead?) and channeled saidar through Graendal. But that seems about as implausible as an idea can get!

This is what I think happened. And Graendal reported to Moridin, who must have known Rand is now ready to use the CK any which way.

In the next book, we'll find out what he planned to do with the info. Only, Rand is no longer that crazy.


If Graendal is still alive, it seems a reasonable conclusion, regardless how she managed to survive.
Rise and fall, turn the Wheel,
'cause all life is
is really just a circle.

-BHT&tM
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Graendal's Fate (Alive or Dead?) - 05/01/2010 05:44:12 PM 2295 Views
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Nynaeve's boat... - 05/01/2010 07:23:57 PM 889 Views
Balefire is REALLY confusing. - 05/01/2010 07:41:05 PM 775 Views
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Re: I'm somewhat surprised objects have threads. - 05/01/2010 10:30:42 PM 741 Views
Wasn't there a quote somewhere - 06/01/2010 02:05:32 AM 667 Views
Probably a bit of retconning there by Brandon - 06/01/2010 03:34:55 PM 701 Views
BS is definitely wrong here - 06/01/2010 02:01:23 AM 711 Views
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There is another way... - 05/01/2010 07:00:31 PM 729 Views
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Nope - 06/01/2010 04:36:56 AM 765 Views
USe Occam's Razor yourself... - 06/01/2010 05:53:22 AM 884 Views
and why didn't she invert any of the weaves? - 06/01/2010 05:55:54 AM 707 Views
Exactly! *NM* - 06/01/2010 05:27:52 PM 374 Views
Maybe you cannot invert compulsion? - 06/01/2010 06:56:35 PM 742 Views
so it's the one and only thing we've seen that can't be inverted? seems a little - 06/01/2010 11:31:09 PM 649 Views
Re: so it's the one and only thing we've seen that can't be inverted? - 07/01/2010 12:02:00 AM 599 Views
I am inclined to agree with Datakim here. - 07/01/2010 02:04:42 AM 905 Views
Why aren't inverted weaves standard practice? - 07/01/2010 01:24:09 AM 765 Views
Balefire is so confusing - 05/01/2010 07:03:29 PM 771 Views
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She's dead as a bloody doornail. Or whatever that saying is... *NM* - 05/01/2010 07:20:36 PM 371 Views
Clearly dead - 05/01/2010 07:29:11 PM 910 Views
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She's dead as dead gets. - 06/01/2010 01:43:34 AM 662 Views
Dead is my bet - 06/01/2010 11:48:46 AM 678 Views
She's dead *NM* - 06/01/2010 11:58:34 AM 344 Views
Dead. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:58:19 PM 350 Views
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What if.. - 06/01/2010 10:41:44 PM 647 Views
I'll roll my eyes, and snort if she's alive - 08/01/2010 04:21:20 AM 667 Views
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