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Interesting idea but with some problems I think. Datakim Send a noteboard - 04/01/2010 09:50:28 PM
It really started when thinking about ending the Seanchen practice of collaring people who can channel. I know a lot of people think that this will simply happen with an order from the top, but I think that is too simplistic. The system of damane/suldam is a pillar of Seanchen society. Even if the Empress, May she live forever, were to declare an end to the system, I do not think it would go away that easily. We know that Seanchen sociey is wrought with rebellions. Were the Empress to declare an end to the system on which a large part of the ruling segment of society bases it power, I would guess a lot of rebellions would take place, especially since currently the Empress is very far from the seat of power for her society.


Probably, something really big would have to happen to change the view of the population. I mean most Seanchan are so horrified at the OP that they would not let it even touch them if they had a choice. I remember the scene where Perrin is about to be healed by Neald and Tylee is horrified at the very idea, and it is the use of the OP itself and not the taint that frightens her, that is made certain.

One idea that I had in that thread of mine a bit lower was the possibility that Mat will be responsible for the end of this. I mean he is tied to Tuon and Seanchan and he does potentially have a way of shaking the entire Seanchan empire.

He can blow the Horn of Valere and summon Hawkwing himself, the ancestor of Tuon and the ultimate founder of the empire and the one who the Seanchan revere and whose name they use to justify their actions.

Can you imagine the reaction if Mat were to bring forth the horn in a public meeting and summon Hawkwing, only to have him openly proclaim that his hatred of the OP and the Aes Sedai was the work of Ishamael and that what they are doing is evil and that it must stop. And also reveal that the prophecy about the Dragon having to kneel is a false one and ask Tuon to work with Rand to fight the DO.

And it just so happens that Mat now has a letter from Verin which may very well contain the location of the horn...


So, . . ., that got me to thinking of what could help lead to an end to the practice. Obviously, the revelation that suldam can also channel could help, but still many will simply take this as either trickery from Aes Sedai or untrue propanganda. Even when Tuon seems to accept it might be possible, she shows no interest in that fact changing anything about the system.


She might be partly in denial though. I mean she is a sul'dam herself. She has convinced herself that it does not matter so long as the sul'dam don't actually choose to channel. She ignores the fact that some people (sparkers) do not have the luxury of choice and the fact that in a way, by using the a'dam the sul'dam ARE learning to channel. That is why the a'dam collar does not hold them at first, but does after they have been at it for a while.

I would love to see Tuon herself collared and forced to channel. After that it would not matter if she were freed. She would have touched the source so she would be like the sparkers in that she would keep channeling, no matter how much she tried not do.


But what if something else, outside the system, were to force the changes. What if the system were to become ineffective, at least in part. If the effectiveness of the damane collar were to be lessened, then it would be much easier for Tuon (if she were so inclined) to implement changes, to abolish the system.

But the collar has been around for a long time, so any flaws in the collar system would have been explored by now, right? Well, maybe not. There are a lot of new things with the Power going on and maybe one of those things could be a flaw in the collar system.

What if the bond that Ashaman create with their "captive" Aes Sedai interferes with the function of an adam? This seems plausible, as we know that the bond created by the Ashaman forces the Aes Sedai to obey them. It seems at least possible that a "bond" that creates that kind of relationship with one person might interfere with another "bond" trying to create the same kind of relationship with someone else. Especially if the first bond is created by saidin and the second by saidar.

I know that there is some solid evidence against this theory, in that whatever the bonds that were created by Alanna and Rand's trio with him didn't interfere at all with the male adam's effectiveness on him, but that may not be the exact same situation (for one thing Logain's bond with Gabrelle and Toveine gives him a lot more control of them that Alanna's does with Rand, which makes me think that the bonds are not exactly the same).

Anyway, what if the adam doesn't work when the Seanchen try to collar Toveine or Gabrelle or one of the other 49 "bonded" Aes Sedai? That would create quite a problem for the whole system (one must assume that most reasonable Aes Sedai would run out and get themselves bonded right quick if word of that leaked out).

It would also create quite an impetus for the White Tower and the Black Tower to work together.


Sure, that idea would certainly work. We know that the damane has to be willing to do whatever the sul'dam wants. Normally that is not a problem since torture breaks the damane so completely that they actually want to obey the sul'dam. However if they are forcibly prevented from doing so by an outside source, the sul'dam cannot ignore the damane's resistance. For example it has been mentioned that captured AS simply cannot be forced to use the OP as a weapon since one of the three oaths prevents it.

The trouble with your idea is that the asha'man bond is a form of compulsion that the AS would probably find equally horrific as the a'dam itself. For the bond to be the solution to this problem would essentially mean exchanging one form of slavery to another. It would be no better. I seriously doubt the AS would EVER be willing to submit to it, even if it were to protect them from the seanchan.

We know that the traditional kind of bond that does not hold the compulsion element like the one between Rand and Min does NOT offer protection since as you said, it did not help against Semirhage. Granted the Domination Bracelets are a lot more hard core than the a'dam, but surely some of the captured AS have had warders and we have had no mention that it interfered. So a compulsion in the bond is required.

Though this did bring up another interesting idea. Why don't the AS simply swear a fourth oath on the oath rod. "I will not in any way obey a seanchan sul'dam". That would make any captured AS completely useless as a damane. We know from the fact that AS damane cannot kill that the seanchan cannot overcome the power of the oath rod. An oath that forcibly prevented the AS from cooperating with the sul'dam would render them useless, no matter how much torture the Seanchan tried to use since even after the captured AS damane had been broken and wanted to obey, the oath would prevent it.
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A crackpot theory I have bandying about in my head - 04/01/2010 08:41:35 PM 939 Views
Interesting idea but with some problems I think. - 04/01/2010 09:50:28 PM 607 Views
Re: Interesting idea but with some problems I think. - 05/01/2010 06:57:25 AM 524 Views
Re: Interesting idea but with some problems I think. - 05/01/2010 03:03:04 PM 520 Views
If death is really preferable, how come the 50 captured by Ashaman have not committed mass suicide? - 06/01/2010 05:34:55 PM 457 Views
They hope to be free. - 06/01/2010 07:04:51 PM 413 Views
I would think if Mat does that, there would be another bleakness. - 06/01/2010 05:43:46 PM 450 Views
I'm not sure but it is an interesting theory. Good job. *NM* - 06/01/2010 01:39:12 AM 215 Views

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