Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much. 
Phelix Send a noteboard - 01/01/2010 09:05:45 PM
Phelix Send a noteboard - 01/01/2010 09:05:45 PM
If there was a connotation of serving the Light or the Pattern, then they would explicitly say that, perhaps while discussing the Black Ajah. If "Aes Sedai" had the connotation of serving the light, then that would make modern BA members Forsaken, because they have rejected the Light too.
I don't know that I agree with that, but I take your point 
Dankie.
BA are probably now referred to as Dreadlords just as they were in the Trolloc Wars ... perhaps another clue that the meaning of "servant" has changed from the AoL to the 3rd Age...
Dreadlords were both men and women, it wasn't just darkfriend Aes Sedai... so it wouldn't be right to call them AS, and IIRC, this was before Ishy had formalized the BA, so that didn't fit either.
I don't know if they would be Dreadlords or not... IIRC, RJ flat out said that Dreadlords were a product of the Trolloc Wars and did not exist before that. Now that we have the BA, I don't think we'll see Dreadlords, per se, again.
It seems far more likely to me that the concept of "serving the light/pattern" probably came about only after the DO was released. Prior to that it would be kind of unnecessary since there wasn't anything but the light!
I doubt that the meaning of a word would change that much in the 100 years of the Collapse, considering how much the "Good" folks were working to contain the changes the darkfriends were making.
But remember we are told that it was a particular honor to become Aes Sedai, and that people who became Aes Sedai often earned third names for doing great service to society. Yes, the whole society revolved around serving others, but servants of all served society at large, not just those in close proximity to them.
I don't know about this. AS certainly had more opportunity to earn the 3rd name, if only due to much longer lifespan and the inherent advantage of Channeling, but anyone in the AoL could earn the 3rd name. And there is nothing in the text to support that only AS served society at large. High Councilors and the Rods of Dominion would have served society at large. And we have nothing in the text to lead us to believe that only AS could hold such posts.
They served society at large because they were Servants of All. People who could channel, but did not want to dedicate their life to society's betterment simply got trained in the Power, and then left, not becoming AS.
I do not think that the important positions were all held by AS (Until near the end, then they probably were)... but AS had more time to learn skills and make themselves useful and valuable candidates for such positions.
In fact it seems doubtful from what the BWB tells us about AoL governance:
According to all sources, the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends had a very loose sort of organization. To what extent that organization was part of the world government is not known; clearly the Aes Sedai were highly influential, with considerable power, at least at times, but equally clearly they were not the entire government and did not necessarily dominate it.
Or
The Age’s system of government was both strong and responsive. Unfortunately, very few details of this government or how it interacted with the population at large and the Aes Sedai are available. The sparse fragmented documents that have been preserved mention a worldwide parliament, or “council,” of democratically elected officials. They also mention that within the government the ability to channel earned respect, but did not guarantee prominence. From this we can deduce that Aes Sedai were often elected to the council, and were influential, but were not necessarily in charge.
An obligation to serve would make sense, but that is not what Fionwe proposed. He suggested that Aes Sedai carries the connotation of Servant of the Pattern, to the Creator, of the Light, etc. and there simply is no evidence for that kind of meaning. What you propose, that "Servant of All" implies an obligation to serve, or a duty to fulfill, that would be a logical extrapolation of "servant."
Obligation also fits with the BWB:
The people afforded the most status, though they still had to earn their third name through great individual works, were those whose gifts made them capable of the greatest service: those who could effectively channel the One Power. These men and women were called Aes Sedai, which meant ‘servant of all’ in the Old Tongue. They were dedicated to using the full extent of their gift for the betterment of their world. (emphasis mine)
They were dedicated to bettering their world... the whole world, they were servants of all.
I also find this quote very interesting:
The testing was not mandatory, though few passed up the opportunity, and it required no special preparation or study.
Note that there were in fact people who passed up testing altogether... and later in the BWB it goes on to say that even more gave up after failing once or twice, despite the fact that the ability could manifest over the period of 10 years! Perhaps these people simply didn't want the burden of obligation that came with being AS?
Yep, that's my reading too.
It could have a connotation, but I disagree with the ones Fionwe proposed.
I'd go so far as to say it MUST have a connotation, but I agree, we don't really know what that connotation is since it's never been spelled out for us, unless the above quote from the BWB counts. Personally I think it's likely very different in the 3rd Age than it was in the AoL in any case.
The connotation of service and obligation is fairly well spelled out, and the fact that service is owed to society and the world, and doing things to better it is also fairly clearly spelled out. Note that there is no mention of serving the Light, the Creator, or the Pattern.
I was Phelix on wotmania, I will always be Phelix in the "real" world, and now I am Phelix on RAFO.
You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill
*MySmiley*
You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill
*MySmiley*
It just occured to me
- 31/12/2009 10:12:12 AM
1369 Views
I tink they did
- 31/12/2009 10:52:32 AM
657 Views
Yeah, you are right, checked it. For example, Mierin Sedai is mentioned! *NM*
- 31/12/2009 11:02:11 AM
509 Views
Re: It just occured to me
- 31/12/2009 11:07:29 AM
658 Views
Depends on what the actual translation is...
- 31/12/2009 04:49:54 PM
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The translation...
- 31/12/2009 06:17:07 PM
522 Views
Look at M'Hael
- 31/12/2009 08:12:35 PM
550 Views
No...
- 31/12/2009 08:19:18 PM
499 Views
And Sedai is not a title?
- 31/12/2009 08:47:03 PM
582 Views
Nope, it is an honorific.
- 31/12/2009 09:31:37 PM
649 Views
You're really splitting hairs...
- 01/01/2010 04:06:02 PM
739 Views
That's why I said I was.
- 01/01/2010 06:19:22 PM
648 Views
My 2 cents... which may only be worth 1 
- 01/01/2010 06:39:52 PM
625 Views
- 01/01/2010 06:39:52 PM
625 Views
I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.
- 01/01/2010 06:49:25 PM
623 Views
- 01/01/2010 06:49:25 PM
623 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.
- 01/01/2010 07:27:57 PM
638 Views
- 01/01/2010 07:27:57 PM
638 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.
- 01/01/2010 07:37:17 PM
605 Views
- 01/01/2010 07:37:17 PM
605 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.
- 01/01/2010 08:08:58 PM
641 Views
- 01/01/2010 08:08:58 PM
641 Views
Re: I'll cash that check, but I doubt my bank will care much.
- 01/01/2010 09:05:45 PM
608 Views
- 01/01/2010 09:05:45 PM
608 Views
I think it's meant to be more like "public servant" than "household help" or "farmhand"
- 31/12/2009 07:11:28 PM
463 Views
They don't care. The meaning of the honorific is irrelevant - all significance comes from context
- 01/01/2010 06:08:40 AM
544 Views