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Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it... Shannow Send a noteboard - 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM
traveling *is* still a type of talent. Even people that are considered strong in the one power can have difficulties opening up those 4X4pace gateways, when others of the same strength are able to do it with ease. In example: Aviendha now has to use her *entire* strength to open up a gateway that is still smaller than what Elayne is able to create. Now, we know that Aviendha is able to travel normally, without using her entire strength, but she completely forgot how to create the weave she used to instaport to Seandar/Seanchan.

This proves to me that TRAVELING, i.e. the standard weave, is something able to be done by everyone strong enough, and much like the ACTs, some people do better with it than others, even though those that do poorly can be just as intelligent. To go along with this metaphor, Aviendha's hastily erected weave, say the "SATs" of traveling, worked very well for her and would probably work well for several others (we haven't met any specifically) that have problems with the "ACT" method.

The main problem with 3rd age travelers comes from their lack of innovation; most of the Aes Sedai refuse to think anything is possible if they don't already have a weave (or they say it is some lost marvel, never to be seen again, from the AoL). In the Age of Legends, where research was paramount, there might have been as many versions of the traveling weave as there was numbers of channelers strong enough to implement it. Where does it say in the text that all of the forsaken use the *exact* same weave? As long as the basic method of female/male is intact (folding the pattern/boring a hole in the pattern) then the methodology is up to the creativity of the weaver.

thoughts?


The size of the gateway is linked to her potential.
Aviendha and Elayne are of similar strength And Aviendha says that Elayne can make the same size gateway that Aviendha can, only that Elayne uses only a part of her strength for it while Aviendha has to use most of her strength for it.

But the sizes of their gateways are the same. Therefore, gateway size remains an accurate gauge of the channeler's potential strength. They just may use different proportions of their potential to make it.

Same with Flinn. He states in tGS that he isn't as good at making gateways as one of the other Ashaman. But his gateway is still the largest of all the Ashaman with Rand in PoD. So it merely means that Flinn uses more of his strength to make his gateway. But the maximum size of his gateway is not diminished because of it.

Bottomline, the potential strength/gateway size correlation is a solid one, and therefore Rand, Logain, Egwene and others all refer to it as a clear cut rule. The larger your gateway, the stronger you are in the Power. How MUCH of your strength you use to make that gateway does not change the fact that your gateway size and potential strength are correlated.
This message last edited by Shannow on 23/12/2009 at 05:31:03 PM
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I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates - 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM 1261 Views
There are 21 levels, not 100. More later. *NM* - 20/12/2009 07:23:18 PM 441 Views
RJ has said a number of times that the 21 level scale - 20/12/2009 07:35:25 PM 661 Views
Few glaring errors... - 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM 845 Views
Re: Few glaring errors... - 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM 816 Views
You don't get it, do you... - 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM 748 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear? - 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM 635 Views
That only strengthens my point. - 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM 682 Views
No it does not. - 28/12/2009 02:45:42 AM 731 Views
What you are missing is that - 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM 690 Views
I'm not missing it at all.. - 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM 716 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text - 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 693 Views
Not correct... - 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM 784 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence - 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM 681 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong. - 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM 664 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy - 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM 620 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH - 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM 742 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range... - 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM 781 Views
Corrections - 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM 795 Views
No... - 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM 686 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM* - 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM 568 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers - 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM 668 Views
Perhaps... - 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM 733 Views
I've always hated bell curves - 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM 684 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average... - 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM 676 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve - 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM 560 Views
Why? - 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM 690 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the - 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM 606 Views
Always go back to the evidence... - 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM 763 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this - 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM 676 Views
Name an item you dispute and I will provide the quote.... - 23/12/2009 05:19:49 PM 649 Views
it's addressed below - 23/12/2009 05:23:58 PM 661 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments - 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM 697 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem - 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM 668 Views
Nice! It proves what I've been saying for ages... - 29/12/2009 10:13:41 PM 697 Views
Which is why I contend that they are about 80% of Lanfear - 29/12/2009 10:16:07 PM 656 Views
I wasn't trying to rip him a new one. - 22/12/2009 09:38:43 PM 588 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 706 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... - 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM 705 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... - 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM 798 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength - 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM 695 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM* - 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM 410 Views
This is true, however... - 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM 722 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it... - 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM 958 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation - 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM 754 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule... - 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM 603 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling - 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM 641 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM* - 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM 374 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? - 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM 668 Views
And there you have it...Thank you. - 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM 652 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine - 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM 642 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM* - 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM 384 Views
No more than yours is! - 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM 684 Views
That entire passage is in the context of strength... - 23/12/2009 07:55:50 PM 588 Views
You need to re-read some of this stuff - 23/12/2009 11:01:15 PM 727 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM 661 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population - 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM 643 Views
Goodness - 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM 688 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author - 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM 635 Views
Since you love Wiki so much - 31/12/2009 03:55:09 AM 645 Views
No you are not - 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM 689 Views
Dude we're discussion works of fiction - 31/12/2009 04:08:12 AM 708 Views
Dumb Bell Distribution of Mongoloid Turings - 31/12/2009 04:36:50 AM 764 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this - 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM 616 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution - 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM 644 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't) - 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM 692 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution - 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM 641 Views
You are the one who is MIS-USING his statement - 31/12/2009 03:44:26 AM 644 Views
- 31/12/2009 03:48:20 AM 949 Views
The pathos of Darius - 31/12/2009 04:26:15 AM 669 Views
Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) - 29/12/2009 12:46:13 AM 587 Views
Re: Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) - 29/12/2009 04:21:47 PM 653 Views

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