Rand has LTTs memories of the AoL to go on ... men and women back then worked with the opposite power in Links often enough to know how to perform many tasks... just like Semhirage had to think about how to make the pain weave work with saidin in TGS.
Yes I agree that Rand has those memories and that's what I'm alluding to. He says you take Compulsion and reverse it. He says that he's not very good with it. So it's similar.
Well, since men can't feel each others strength it's one of the only ways he has to make an estimate. But we know that Flinn can't make a Gateway commensurate with his actual strength. Rand doesn't wonder about it because he's not really thinking about the finer details of the Power. It's obvious that even a weaker channeler can outstrip very strong ones if they have the right Talent strongly enough (Berowin and Samitsu are excellent examples).
We don't know that about Flinn. We only know that he struggles to weave gateways. I completely agree with you that people with Talents are vastly superior to those who don't have the Talent, but some generalizations can be made. If you ask someone to make a giant fireball you can sort of say what they're capable of. It's unlikely they're very weak or very strong in Fire.
I'm 99% sure we're saying the same thing.
Yes, but you said you don't consider them to be the same, whereas I do.
I infer from Rands quote that the particular feat of weaving a bridge of air is simply easier to do with saidar than it is with saidin. Strength doesn't seem to be the issue here, as a limit is a limit... there are just different limits for men than for women.
Moiraine was simply an illustration.
Moiraine was simply an illustration.
Yes, it's obviously a saidar thing, probably centered around Air. I'm merely pointing out that strength in the Power can bridge many obstacles that are supposed to be there. I'm quite sure that Nynaeve isn't strong in all the five Powers but she doesn't really struggle with anything either. Likewise I think that most Ash'aman would struggle to weave an Air bridge, because it's Air (most Aes Sedai can't even fuse bricks using Earth). However, Rand is so strong in the Power he can pull it off, so I think it would take a powerful woman to exceed him. Rand can't Heal despite being strong, but making a bridge is a product of Air, and Rand can probably overcome that with strength to some degree. I think Lanfear would have the same limitations with Fire and Earth, but I still think it would take a very strong male to exceed her.
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Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM
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I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM
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Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM
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Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM
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Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM
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Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM*
17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM
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why?
17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM
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Re: why?
17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM
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I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point
17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM
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and yet RJ does
17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM
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No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM
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Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM
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Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM
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Meh...
19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM
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Let's work with your figures...
17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM
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Re: Let's work with your figures...
17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM
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You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM*
17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM
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Re: two women holding Nynaeve
17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM
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Re: two women holding Nynaeve
17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM
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I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block.
17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM
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but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential
17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM
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What? Where? *NM*
18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM
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I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books
18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM
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Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM
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Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM
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What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM
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It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai...
17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM
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Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM
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Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM
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uhm.... yes she knows
17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM
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Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him
17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM
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And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai.
17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM
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How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that?
17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM
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Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was.
17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM
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Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger
17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM
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Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM
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Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM
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Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM*
17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM
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This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use...
17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM
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But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM
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I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger
*NM*
17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
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You also forget something.
17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM
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That has nothing to do with what I said...
18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM
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Re: That has nothing to do with what I said...
18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM
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Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai".
18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM
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Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM*
18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM
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I cannot. That's the point...
18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM
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The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15...
17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM
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In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM
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Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM
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What do you mean, relative scale?
18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM
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OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me
18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM
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1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range...
18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM
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Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative
18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM
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The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM
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Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM
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Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM
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You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence...
18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM
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Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate...
18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM
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Explain one thing to me...
18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM
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Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM*
18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM
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Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote.
18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM
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which is also suspect
19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM
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OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then.
18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM
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Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM
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Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM
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I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM
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Re: I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM
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Re: I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM
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Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM
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Why are you entertaining this?
18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM
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The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM*
18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM
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Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength.
18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM
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Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM
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I can't imagine it being about skill
19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM
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of course it's about skill
19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM
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Not it isn't!
19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
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If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam
19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM
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