Active Users:1350 Time:19/12/2024 11:17:52 AM
Re: You also forget something. Phelix Send a noteboard - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM
Now, one would expect the damane to accurately reflect the bell curve, as well as the Wise Ones, because they actively make sure to catch every potential channeler, either as a sul'dam, damane, or apprentice. You'll also note that the damane so far have all been seen as being stronger than the average Aes Sedai, IIRC.


This isn't true. In WH of the 5 captured damane with Elayne, only Alivia is noted as being stronger than AS ... the others are all called "average"

In addition, the restrictions the AS put on everything should make them more likely to reflect the largest area of the bell curve... the middle ... not the super weak, who are just as rare as the super strong.


So, with 5 damane captured, they happen to find one of the five who is as strong as the strongest woman to come to the Tower in the last 1,000 years or more.

You are right about one thing though, I was incorrect in saying they were stronger than the average Aes Sedai. That said, I do not recall seeing a weak damane. Tuon's fortune teller might have been weak, but I'm not sure.

As for why the Tower has the weaker women, think about the practical effects of their restrictions and their pool of recruits.

1. They initiate only women who come to them or cannot be ignored. So, the largest pool of women are from areas where Aes Sedai are kindly looked upon, noble families that see the Power as an asset, and countries/regions like Tear where it is illegal to channel (excluding Amador, where they execute witches).

2. We know that channeling is, at least, in part a genetic trait. Because the Tower has been drawing their initiates from the same pool for so long and not reaching outside of those traditional groups, they have been removing the channeling genes from their populace.

3. The women they do accept rarely reproduce, and so they rarely pass those genes on to future generations in their home region or not.

4. They reject women who have pre-existing ties, ie: married women, women with children, etc. In an agriculturally based society, marrying young is the norm. Egwene was 16 or 17 when the story started, and she was planning on marrying Rand (or becoming Wisdom) soon. Faile, a noble, is married to Perrin at 16 or so, and no one thinks it is odd.

The majority of the women in their world will have formed those pre-existing ties before a representative of the Tower meets them, if one ever does.

5. Women with the spark who begin channeling on their own are looked down upon, are often ostracized if they continue in the Tower, and are firmly dissuaded from even thinking about things of the Power if they are not accepted into the Tower.

We know that women with the Spark tend to be stronger than learners. We also know that women with the Spark will eventually channel, whether or not they come to the Tower. Women who channel before coming to the Tower, especially if they begin learning before arriving at the Tower are called Wilders and lose status in the eyes of the other Aes Sedai. Women who do not join the Tower have it beaten (metaphorically) into their minds that they are not Aes Sedai, that they cannot hope to be an Aes Sedai, and that such ambitions are beyond them... those women likely teach those lessons to their daughters, who might well be learners or sparkers themselves.

All in all, the Tower's system (unintentionally) sets the Tower up to recruit weaker and weaker women as time goes on.
I was Phelix on wotmania, I will always be Phelix in the "real" world, and now I am Phelix on RAFO.

You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true and also fierce you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her.- Churchill

*MySmiley*
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 8261 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 1598 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1586 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1391 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1508 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1076 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 1484 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1365 Views
Indeed, and not only that - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1070 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1143 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 751 Views
why? - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1193 Views
Re: why? - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1268 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1236 Views
and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1145 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1023 Views
Re: and yet RJ does - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1114 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1228 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 972 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 926 Views
Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 933 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 981 Views
Re: Meh... - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1240 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1191 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1100 Views
Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1036 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1030 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 710 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1131 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1161 Views
the obvious answer - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1021 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1045 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 976 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1157 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1231 Views
I think all the main characters were forced - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1137 Views
agreed! - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1052 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1062 Views
What? Where? *NM* - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1121 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1041 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1019 Views
Don't links amplify stength? - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 957 Views
The opposite, actually. - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1060 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1191 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1091 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 631 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1167 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1119 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1345 Views
uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1184 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1070 Views
yup *NM* - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 587 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1147 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1336 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1088 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1025 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1056 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1063 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 988 Views
agreed - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 949 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 637 Views
I'll check *NM* - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 606 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1114 Views
No people just interpret things differently - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 921 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 865 Views
You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 953 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 978 Views
Re: You also forget something. - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1002 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 963 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 880 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 922 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 904 Views
I cannot. That's the point... - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 930 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 935 Views
Sorry, but no... - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 973 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1454 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 937 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 842 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 880 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 935 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 898 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 837 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 905 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 971 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 905 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 984 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1004 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1068 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1005 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 983 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 910 Views
Explain one thing to me... - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 925 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 542 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 885 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 935 Views
Can you provide the quote? - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 844 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1024 Views
which is also suspect - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 946 Views
No it's not - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 918 Views
we're in agreement - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 868 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 948 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 917 Views
I don't think it's a lie - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 969 Views
Agreed - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 924 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 905 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 880 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 928 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 983 Views
I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 976 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 950 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 930 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 961 Views
Why are you entertaining this? - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 940 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 954 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 955 Views
of course it's about skill - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 943 Views
Not it isn't! - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 974 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1055 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1178 Views

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