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Re: What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM

Because the post title says "relative strengths" and he says that 100 represents Rand's level. All the others' strengths are relative to Rand.

So what does a relative strength of 30 mean?
More importantly, once you convert this relative scale into an actual scale, that is the point at which RJ's bell curve kicks in.

Yes, I agree. Though if RJ had 21 levels, I would assume some are less than 1 standard deviation apart.

They certainly are. Why you're using this as an argument against me is what I'm wondering about now...

Well, to be quite honest, the bell curve reaches out to infinity in each direction, so limiting to 100 is kinda silly. But we have a put a limit, so let's say it IS 100.

We can put a limit of 100 quite easily. That is the point where the curve becomes an asymptote. We do this all the time when using bell curves for grades out of a hundred. Obviously, no one is going to have a grade from 101 to infinity. The curve has thus essentially ended there.
<qiote>In that case, 50 is the mean, but what is the standard deviation?
WHY DOES IT MATTER? I'm sorry if I'm coming across as frustrated and angry, but why do you keep harping on the standard deviation? There is nothing in all I've said that will be affected by the standard deviation much. It is an interesting artefact with no relevance!
If RJ has said that 62.5% of all channelers in RL are stronger than the weakest AS (based on your quote that 62.5% of channelers are strong enough to BE AS), then, that means the weakest AS is much less than one standard deviation from the mean of 50.

DUH! I said as much in one of my replies to you!
In fact, she is less than 1/2 a standard deviation from the mean.

Yes...
So, at one standard deviation from the mean, the strength level between average and one-SD stronger AS is twice that of the difference between average and weakest.

NO! Because Aes Sedai=/=female channeler.
As you move futher out, you will see that the difference in strength between the channeler in question and the average larger and larger compared to the difference between average AS and weakest AS.

Again, so? This proves the female channelers are clustered around the mean, which is the first implication of the bell curve. Why exactly have we had four posts of argument to reach this conclusion?
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 8535 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 1706 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1669 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1480 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1584 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1160 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 1574 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1463 Views
Indeed, and not only that Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1161 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1198 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 774 Views
why? darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1275 Views
Re: why? Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1343 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1311 Views
and yet RJ does Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1229 Views
Re: and yet RJ does darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1101 Views
Re: and yet RJ does Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1163 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1313 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 1055 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 999 Views
Meh... Sidious - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 999 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 1063 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1348 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1275 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1188 Views
Let's work with your figures... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1116 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1114 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 743 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1220 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1237 Views
the obvious answer darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1078 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1120 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Logain - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 1062 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1237 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1322 Views
I think all the main characters were forced Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1208 Views
agreed! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1137 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1145 Views
What? Where? *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1196 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1127 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1085 Views
Don't links amplify stength? BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 1030 Views
The opposite, actually. Phelix - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1129 Views
Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength Logain - 17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM 1053 Views
Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM 1240 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Logain - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1289 Views
It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM 1255 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1173 Views
Agreed! *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 660 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1225 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1191 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1425 Views
uhm.... yes she knows Oberonus - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1268 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1148 Views
yup *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 615 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1227 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1414 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1166 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1105 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1137 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1140 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? Logain - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 1068 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 1036 Views
Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM 1008 Views
Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM 1052 Views
Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM 1055 Views
Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM 1073 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* Cannoli - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 671 Views
I'll check *NM* Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 638 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... Shannow - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1195 Views
No people just interpret things differently darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 995 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 936 Views
I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM 597 Views
You also forget something. Phelix - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 1030 Views
Re: You also forget something. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 1057 Views
Re: You also forget something. Phelix - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1079 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 1054 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 961 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 992 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 980 Views
I cannot. That's the point... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 1016 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 1020 Views
Sorry, but no... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 1051 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... Shannow - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1529 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 1024 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 921 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 976 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 1019 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 974 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 911 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 983 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 1040 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 951 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 1067 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1086 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1149 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1091 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 1070 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 982 Views
Explain one thing to me... Shannow - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 1007 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 568 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. Shannow - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 963 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 1011 Views
Can you provide the quote? fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 924 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1104 Views
which is also suspect darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 1010 Views
No it's not Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 1000 Views
we're in agreement darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 950 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 1022 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 995 Views
I don't think it's a lie BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 1050 Views
Agreed Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 992 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 990 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 954 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 1010 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 1061 Views
I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 1055 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 1038 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 1013 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 1051 Views
Why are you entertaining this? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 1022 Views
The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM 611 Views
Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength. fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM 1029 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 1028 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 1038 Views
of course it's about skill darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 1024 Views
Not it isn't! Sidious - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 1046 Views
If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM 973 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... everynametaken - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1103 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. Heiko - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1251 Views
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