Re: All that will do is take the best fighters out of action.
Cannoli Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 08:49:28 PM
The Aes Sedai are not great fighters, but there are plenty other useful uses of the Power. And my impression is that the rebel Aes Sedai were far better prepared for attacks (in LoC we see they set up a plan of linking in the event of an attack).
Which, as Nynaeve pointed out, was a failure. And even if they are well-prepared, it does not change the fact that the Seanchan have 1,000 years of battle-testing their precautions and procedures and were seen to adapt very rapidly indeed to confronting a channeling foe. The rebels' precautions in their camp are irrelevant when considering what would happen if Aes Sedai dropped into a fight with the Seanchan.Both were led by people with decades (or centuries) of experience in combat, and plenty of maturity. And in the case of Flinn, I imagine Cadsuane left the decision on the leader to Corele (sp?) who was one of her most trusted associates and held Flinn's bond.
Um, your point? Mine is, these were good choices, being non-Aes Sedai.You forget Verin's other, hidden, allegiance. As I understood from both her confession in tGS and Elza's PoV in WH just before she kills Dashiva, the Black Ajah have a very strong prohibition against killing Forsaken. They have to have a *really* good justification for that. Elza was able to get around it only because she believed that Dashiva was "just" an Ash'aman.
I forget nothing. As I pointed out in a post a while back, her actions can be taken at more or less face value, since she was always loyal to the Light and working in their interests. In a forest in the middle of nowhere, with no Black Ajah superiors about, there is no reason to assume her unwillingly assumed role as a Black sister is governing her actions. And you are wrong about the prohibition against attacking the Forsaken. Liandrin was perfectly able to strike at Moghedian and her Black faction was open to taking on a Forsaken with their balefire rod. There is no such prohibition that actually impedes them, besides fear of retribution, which was not Verin's concern. She actually says the reverse to Egwene, that a Black sister CAN get away with betraying one of the Chosen. Daigian's warder was a 15 or 16 year old boy, and by his own PoV, very immature. Halima took them by surprise, but no one could conceivably expect a woman channeling Saidin - why would they? Unfortunately that fact caused enough delay in relaying the information to the leader of the circle that it had the tragic consequence. The same would likely have happened had the circle been led by Eben and a man channeling Saidar attacked it.
Except there is no such thing. What if it was a man channeling saidin from hiding? He would still have been the first one to sense it! Even Beldeine would have been a better choice, given that she was at least suspicious of Aran'gar's presence! I mean, REALLY. What IS Daigian's problem? ANYONE showing up near Shadar Logoth should be a reason for suspicion! Why wasn't Daigian ready as soon as she saw a human being? How much advance warning was she expecting of attack? What evidence do you offer of Eben's immaturity, when just about every other word about him in the series talks about his being older than his years, and aged by his experiences. He is the only one in that entire group who has faced one of the Forsaken in combat, Flinn & Narishma being with comatose Rand while Hopwil, Morr & Adley were fighting Sammael. How could Merise know that Elza was a darkfriend? Also Elza has not shown any signs of being unstable - she was described as "pleasant" in fact, and very dedicated to the DR's welfare.
Oh, THAT'S a reason for Cadsuane's group to trust her? Earlier in that same book, Shalon observes that Cadsuane's faction scorns the Dragonsworn sisters for just that reason (though she does not know what it is)! It doesn't matter what she could or could not know. SHE was given a job and she ditched it, for absolutely no good reason, and against her normal inclinations towards letting people do stuff with her newest warder.I think you forget that decisions made on short notice in the heat of combat are not going to have the advantage of hindsight 20-20. Given that Cadsuane only found out what Rand was planning to do maybe 5-10 minutes earlier, I think her defensive plan worked very well.
Well enough, but the problem is the attitudes underlying the plan. She put HER people in charge and they either failed or passed the buck to people with the stones to do the job. In each of the circles from which we get a PoV, we see the most unrestrained combat channeler scorned or relegated to a lesser position. Shalon, Narishma & Hopwil were the best choices for leading a circle in battle, having no restrictions on using the Power in battle, as well as specific training (and definite experience) in combat, yet Verin scorns Shalon for not being a sister, and Daigian refrains from making full use of her resources and doesn't listen enough to Beldeine. Narishma, of course, is constrained by Callandor's limitations. As for the "heat of combat" do you think that the rest of the battles to come will not be so "hot"? Sure, it's tough to make decisions under those conditions, but they have to be made, and we have seen in the crunch that Aes Sedai in general, and academic sisters in particular fail. Military groups train and drill their people so they have something to help them through those difficult combat decisions. "Of all his five years schooling, they don't remember much
Except the not-retreating, the step and keeping touch.
It looks like training wasted when they duck & skip & hop,
But if he hadn't learned 'em, they'd be all about the shop." -Rudyard Kipling "The 'eathen"
The Asha'man, and maybe the Green Ajah, have had the "schooling." Many of them have been in combat before, especially against the Seanchan, and it will not be a mystery or a shock to them. BTW, note that even the experience gained at the Cleansing is useless for combat leadership, since all the circle leaders but Flinn are now dead.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Learning traveling will help the Seanchan, but the AS still have the advantage.
17/12/2009 01:13:32 AM
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Re: Learning traveling will help the Seanchan, but the AS still have the advantage.
17/12/2009 01:39:32 AM
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Linking provides another benefit.
17/12/2009 02:02:05 AM
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Wow, if that happens, I will be her biggest fan *NM*
17/12/2009 02:10:01 AM
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Me too! Destroying the White Tower would make even me like Egwene. *NM*
17/12/2009 11:36:03 AM
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Ideally, both would be destroyed! Along with the rest of Randland. Muahahahahaha!!
18/12/2009 12:40:55 AM
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What an utterly stupid idea.
17/12/2009 11:35:24 AM
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Your facts are incorrect.
17/12/2009 02:41:42 PM
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They were losing at Dumai's Wells. That's why they had to tie off Rand's shield
17/12/2009 08:18:32 PM
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The army of Night, fighting against the Seanchan Empire, surely have linked channelers
18/12/2009 04:34:52 AM
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Is that the Superpower they're looking for all along? *NM*
17/12/2009 02:02:25 AM
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No, the superpower is the "atomic bomb-like" weapon at the Kin's farm that melted sand.
17/12/2009 03:10:01 AM
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another linking advantage
17/12/2009 02:10:56 AM
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All that will do is take the best fighters out of action.
17/12/2009 11:55:55 AM
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I have to agree with Cannoli on this, but with a twist.
17/12/2009 02:46:03 PM
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Why mace of air?
17/12/2009 05:58:32 PM
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I can't compete with deathgates to outer space, but damane can be rehabilitated.
17/12/2009 08:10:17 PM
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So can soldiers. Lots of Taraboners, Altarans, etc in Seanchan army.
17/12/2009 10:08:32 PM
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Oh, yes. Because damane NEVER fight soldiers, and would thus ignore them.
17/12/2009 09:00:41 PM
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Re: All that will do is take the best fighters out of action.
17/12/2009 07:38:55 PM
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Re: All that will do is take the best fighters out of action.
17/12/2009 08:49:28 PM
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Re: All that will do is take the best fighters out of action.
19/12/2009 06:10:26 PM
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Do you really think the Aes Sedai would let them control the circles if they had a say?
21/12/2009 08:23:46 PM
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Re: Do you really think the Aes Sedai would let them control the circles if they had a say?
22/12/2009 02:04:11 AM
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Why did you post this?
17/12/2009 09:35:09 AM
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What post are you talking about?
17/12/2009 04:57:14 PM
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thanks for the credit... PS I'm a guy *NM*
18/12/2009 12:10:56 AM
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Ooops
18/12/2009 12:48:22 AM
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I'm totally teasing you ... I added the "sedai" to be snarky
18/12/2009 12:55:51 AM
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Yeah, I don't get that: Fantasy gender-nuetral honorific, plus Real World male name = female?
18/12/2009 05:35:17 AM
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Asha'man can' link either and they didn't have a problem moving an army
17/12/2009 08:16:48 PM
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Rand's campaign lasted more than a week. The AS could move the entire army in 5 minutes.
17/12/2009 08:28:40 PM
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